Kim (and Bruno, if you allow me to intrude):
Bruno's "IF" depends IMO on how one is defining "machine". Evidently NOT a
mechanical contraption driven by 'energy'(?) input and built-in controls
that are operated by a 'machinist' of higher consciousness. Then again
Descartes? I would call his point a 'machine WITH a ghost' what he calls
I would name it a "complexity of machine and function' calling a machine
anything that DOES something (even that is questionable).
In many minds 'machine' may imply a design. (Just haphazardously, or as the
So, to reflect to Kim's question, "what else?" - could mean: different from
(Complexity is my word for 'ensemble', because the latter does not postulate
any interrrelations - interactive(?) functions(?). )
A machine is not a mere 'ensemble'. Nor is a universe. Maybe my poor French
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:29 AM, Kim Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ok - Bruno, I will take this very slowly. You have a habit of saying
> 10,000 fascinating things in one post and staggering me, so one at a
> On 10/12/2008, at 4:45 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
> > Here, below, is the plan of my heroic attempt (indeed) to explain why
> > I think that: IF we assume that we are machine,
> Never understood what people meant by "a machine". I've always thought
> I was a machine. C'est evident. Consequently it surprises me when
> people question it. I'm surprised even that it took until Descartes to
> achieve this enlightenment although you will probably say that
> Plotinus was already onto it. Presumably anything that isn't some
> phantasm that defies the laws of physics - and therefore probably
> cannot exist - is going to be a machine of some sort.
> Have I got anywhere near it or am I not even wrong on that?
> Why should it be news to anyone that we are machines - I've been
> assuming it all along. Now you will tell me how I should be - what??
> Experiencing reality? Interpreting reality? Both?
> Everything (appears to my conscious mind to be) an ensemble of
> something else(s) including moi et toi, and it all works somehow in co-
> operation and the universe exists - ergo we are machines - we can
> extrapolate from this that the universe is a gigantic Machine since we
> appear to be a part of an ensemble as a machine element. Ergo the
> Multiverse exists because it's all a fractal
> What's the other option - that never made it into my brain?
> Genial!! - allons-y
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