> First let me ask you, how do you define matter?

matter seems to generally mean the analytical divisibility/conundrum of what
is ordinarily observed in an "external"/"gross" and interconnected sense. It
seems to generally be the analysis of a) nature... as in its basic meaning
of "to be born" b) discernible forces.... all generally "external" or
"objective" and corresponding to our senses and technics and modes of
representation etc... not sure... difficult question.

Very difficult question.... some people talk about the duad matter/spirit...
and say that matter is etherealized spirit and spirit is materialized matter
etc. Some people say everything including our thoughts and feelings are
composite..... some people talk about a subtler and more rarefied variety of
"matter" as in "that which is made up of something"? matter has something to
do with the notion of something or possible point of being making up
something.... matter has something to do with substance, tangibility, force,
feeling, effect, power, motion, objective existence as in being able to
effect something and being complex and alive...

i don't know!

What are trees made of?  Bark, Wood, Leaves

> What are bark, wood and leaves made of? Cells
> What are cells made of? Molecules
> What are molecules made of? Atoms
> What are atoms made of? Sub atomic particles
> What are sub atomic particles made of? Vibrating strings
> What are vibrating strings made of? Small filaments of energy
> What are small filaments of energy made of?

Well I think vibrating strings is a questionable answer.... further more
small units of energy or infinitesimal and compact concentrations of
life-force etc.......

well you get to "information".... like I said what kind of information....
like information as in speech-sound-thoughts-images-memories-understanding?

What is information made of? What is the observer made of? what is mind made
of? what are feelings and emotions and will made of? what is "made" made of.

who gives a damn what things and forces are made of? this assumes either
infinite divisibility which is absurd sounding.... or some fundamental
i-don't-know-what..... perhaps conscious-force is that fundamental
something, that first principle. I don't know!

Here we have only a description that describes their behavior, we cannot say
> strings are anything more fundamental than mathematical objects, yet we can
> say their description is made of information.
well that makes sense.... but you are saying that the essence of everything
is our thoughts? because all our understanding of the world is reducible to
our thoughts? that kind of makes sense. but what are our thoughts reducible
to, what are our thoughts grounded in and what is mind really?

>> >     It is not unreasonable to imagine that information sits at the core
>> of
>> >
>> > > physics, just as it sits at the core of a computer.
>> Do you = information?
> Define what you mean by you.  If you mean mind, then I would say yes, my
> mind is a pattern (not the matter).  The matter constituting my mind is
> constantly replaced.  As Feynman pointed out, last weeks potatoes are
> storing last years memories.  Every 8 days half the water molecules in your
> body are replaced (and your brain is about 85% water).

oh so you say brain = mind?

What I am saying is.... does consciousness = information.

does language and cognition  = information.

> There is information, and relations between information.  (The relations
> themselves can be described in terms of information).

Exactly, but is "the describer" equatable to information to? is "hearing"
and understanding equatable to information?

so your view is that All is information? Nice view! Information's

but then each description would require as many of those symbols as the
number one is trying to represent.  For example, to represent 7 using a
single symbol would look like: | | | | | | |.  Using two symbols, we only
require Log2(value) of symbols to represent it.  For example most people use
the former approach to count on their hands, they can count up to 10.  Most
people don't realize they can use their hands to count up to 1023.  Simply
give each finger a value: 512, 256, 128, 64, 32, 16, 8, 4, 2, 1.  Now
depending on which finger is up, add the corresponding value.  You can
represent all numbers from 0 - 1023 with this approach.  That is all binary
is.  You could use trinary if you wanted, and then you need only Log3(value)
symbols to represent a number, but then you also need 3 different symbols.

lol, that's pretty cool.

you might find this funny:


Information has a slightly more rigid definition than thought or idea.
 See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_(information_theory)
In short, information is a measure of the reduction of uncertainty it

what about the immeasurable, or the unmeasurable? does such exist?

 is to show that even what some consider concrete and indisputable
(particles, fields, etc.) is to us observers, really only information.

I get that.

This should cast doubt on the idea that matter is imbued with some
magical property that is necessary for intelligent machines.

that is pretty darn interesting.. what do you make of the idea of a
fundamental force that imbues and animates all things with life.... like a
fundamental electrical energy of the universe, the source of all its

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
For more options, visit this group at 

Reply via email to