On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Craig Weinberg <[email protected]> wrote:
> It's not something physical that eludes detection, it's just a matter > of understanding that a stem cell doesn't have any purpose on a > chemical level in developing into different kinds of tissue in the > body. It only makes sense from the top down, because the body needs > these various tissues and organs. The molecules don't need to do that > for any chemical purpose, they could just do what every other > inorganic molecule does and just melt and freeze, crystallize, > evaporate, etc. It doesn't need to become an esophagus. Why would > there be a purely chemical reason to become an esophagus? What other reason can a stem cell have to become a mature cell? You are invoking magic. If a cell does *anything* other than exactly what the laws of physics and chemistry say that it will do then that is magic. It's bad enough that you keep saying this, but it's worse that you don't see it or don't admit it. > No, it's using the laws of physics and chemistry to accomplish it's > own purposes. They are using each other to express the order and sense > that they make in relation to each other; the part to the whole, with > each whole being just a part of a larger order and each part being > it's own whole in it's own private context. That may be a way of describing what happens, but it doesn't change the fact that the biological parts do exactly what the matter within them does following the laws of chemistry and physics. Only if there is an immaterial soul which pushes the particles around magically could it be otherwise. > I didn't say that the macrocosm couldn't be predicted by synthesis of > the micro, I said it can't *always* be predicted by scaling up the > microcosm. If you could then there would be no classical limit, and > everything would either behave like weird probabilistic events winking > in and out of 'existence' or it would behave like tiny indivisible > particles clattering around the nucleus like a seeds in hollow nut. > > All of the great scientific ideas of the last century have > increasingly described a universe of holistic interaction and > relativity rather than strictly linear cause and effect logic. There > is no hard material universe of objects anymore, it's all charged > fields and empty space...virtual particles, superposition, etc. Which is all part of physics, and can be predicted by physical laws. What do you think quantum mechanics and relativity theory are about? >> And it supervenes on the processes of our body and brain. > > Sometimes it does, other times the processes of our body and brain > supervenes on our conscious thoughts and intentions. Sometimes it's > both at once. If I decide to do something there is a chain of neurological events. If our conscious thoughts and intentions can drive these neurological events that would mean we could observe some of the neurons involved firing miraculously, rather than because they are stimulated by other neurons. > Responding is only half of the battle. A dummy responds to a > ventriloquist, but that doesn't mean it should be able to replace him. > If you have a brain full of artificial neurons, then it makes a > difference if there's nothing inside that feels what it is that is > being responded to. And if that were possible you might have such a brain now and not know it. >> What if you just replace the spinal cord and each neuron in the brain it >> directly connects with? > > Then you would be paralyzed. With neuroplasticity you might be able to > reimprint yourself so you could throw your limbs around with certain > combinations of intense emotions or something, but I think that your > ordinary access to your body would no longer be directly available. How would you be paralysed if the artificial neurons pass on the signal appropriately to the upstream neurons? It's a direct contradiction: the upstream neurons would both fire and not fire. Which is it? -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
