On 9/4/2011 8:32 AM, Jason Resch wrote:

On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi <use...@rudnyi.ru <mailto:use...@rudnyi.ru>> wrote:

    On 04.09.2011 07:51 meekerdb said the following:


        If that's what you're trying you're giving aid and comfort to the
        enemy. Every religious fundamentalist in America hates materialism
        and believes in an immaterial spirit, distinct from brain processes,
        which is responsible for our thoughts and actions.

    You know, I was raised in the USSR where the official religion was atheism 
    materialism. The results were disastrous.

    Hence you could take the existence of people in the USA who "believe in an
    immaterial spirit, distinct from brain processes" positively. After all, 
they are
    working hard and contribute to prosperity.

    In any case, I do not think that the ideology should affect reasoning.


The kind of atheism and materialism which stood as the official religion of the Soviet Union, and that held by most atheists today is naive. The leading scientific explanations for conscious are mechanistic, but taken to its logical end mechanism leads to remarkable conclusions: consciousness is not attached to the body, it survives death of the body, it continues forever, it may be reincarnated into different forms, it may switch between realms. In this respect, science leads directly to something very much like a soul.

Only by taking partial theories and over extending them.

Similarly, the materialist effort to explain the existence of this universe without invoking God ends up pointing to the existence of something that has no cause, exists timelessly, contains infinite variation (perhaps everything possible), may be identical to the sum of all truth, is everywhere and everything. While not every scientist or person on this list agrees with this, it is the conclusion of any rational effort to explain the fine tuning of this universe.

I don't think any scientists agrees with all of that. It is just armchair philosophizing based on hypotheses like "everything exists". It is certainly not the *only* possible explaination of the alleged fine tuning of some physical parameters.

Beware of those materialists who say all we can see is all that there is.

Beware of those who say they can see what you can't be shown.


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