On 01 Jan 2012, at 01:23, meekerdb wrote:

On 12/31/2011 3:35 PM, Pierz wrote:
When you write things like that I'm left with the impression that you think one's consciousness is a thing, a soul, that moves to different bundles of computation so there are some bundles that don't have any consciousness but could have if you "jumped to them".

Not to wish to pre-empt Bruno's reply, but I think you're mixing up 1- p and 3-p. From 3-p, all branches are conscious, but I only experience
myself on one branch at a time, probabilistically according to the
measure of computations. There's no individual soul, just in one sense
a single consciousness that experiences every possible state.

As for Mars Rover I'm curious to know this: If we programmed it to
avoid danger, would it experience fear?

If we programmed it to sacrifice other important values (like conserving power, or keeping all its parts) I'd speculate that it, in some sense, "felt fear".

Until we understand the
qualia, you're as in the dark as we are on this question. You assume
the affirmative, we assume the negative. That's why I sigh. Such
arguments go nowhere but a reassertion of our biases/intuitions, and
the result is unedifying.

And that's why I think questions of consciousness will ultimately be overtaken-by-events. The interesting questions will be how danger is recognized and avoided, how relations to others are managed, etc. And we will probably talk about them as if the AI is conscious just by analogy to ourselves while at a lower level we know which module is doing what and how changing it will change behavior. But nobody will ask "where's the consciousness" any more than they ask "where's the vis viva" of their automobile.

I disagree. The vis viva is really useless. Consciousness exists, and it has a fundamental role in the handling of highly complex self- referential relations, some of them being responsible for the selection of physical realities. Consciousness is somehow the mother of all qualia, including the sharable quanta. That comes from the ontological reversal. You don't need anything magic, just the ability of some numbers to infer the existence of anything. Consciousness can be approximated by the first person true belief in something. It is somehow the zeroth "mystical state", but we are blase because without it, there would be no knowledge at all, nor even any "physical reality": just third person truth about numbers/finite things.



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