On 17 Jun 2012, at 06:25, meekerdb wrote:

On 6/16/2012 8:34 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 2:17 AM, meekerdb<meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

It seems pretty clear. It's an ability to make decisions in a spirit realm and have them implemented in the physical realm. That entails that physics is not closed, i.e. some physical events happen for a purpose but without an antecedent physical cause. This not meaningless because with sufficient experimental resolution it could be tested. If we could follow in detail the workings of a subject's brain and we found that there were physically uncaused events that led to actions and decisions and these events almost always contributed to the realization of express plans, values, and desires of the subject then we would have say that was evidence for nc- free-will.
How would that be non-compatibilist free will?

It's not compatible with physical determinism. I'm sure what spiritual determinism would mean.

The processes in the
spiritual realm would still either be determined or random,

Would it? Or is that just an assumption? Is it necessary that there be laws that determine everything not random by antecedent states? It's not so clear to me.

and we
would still have to decide whether they were consistent with what we
wanted to call "free will" or not.

Well Sam Harris says that's what everybody who believes in 'free will' thinks it means. Personally, I'm a compatibilist; but I understand the problem people have with compatibilism. If your actions are determined by something outside of you then they are not an expression of your 'free will', but under determinism every one of your actions can be traced back to causes outside of you - even to before your birth. They conclude from this that determinism precludes 'free will'. I conclude that 'free will' is an approximate social concept which depends on our ignorance.

You might say so, but it is still "real", for saying it is not real because it is a higher level notion depending on our ignorance, would make matter and physical realities also unreal, because they might also be approximate social concepts depending on our ignorance (and most plausibly is, assuming digital mechanism).



You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
For more options, visit this group at 

Reply via email to