On 6/17/2012 6:52 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 2:25 PM, meekerdb<meeke...@verizon.net>  wrote:

The processes in the
spiritual realm would still either be determined or random,

Would it? Or is that just an assumption?  Is it necessary that there be laws
that determine everything not random by antecedent states?  It's not so
clear to me.
Can you give an example of something neither determined nor random?

No, not that I know to be such; but believers in contra causal free will think that at least some of their actions are. But they would qualify that by "not determined by *antecedent physical* states". I don't know whether they would allow that psychological states must be either deterministic or random. My point is that "determined by *antecedent* states" and "random" is not a logically exhaustive classification. There is even an interpretation of QM (mostly associated with Henry Stapp) that looks at "random" events as "caused by future states".


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