On 11 Jul 2012, at 15:23, David Nyman wrote:

On 11 July 2012 09:55, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com> wrote:

Even the phisical TOE is part of this second world. there are no countries, no cars, no persons, no electrons outside of the world of the mind. Outside of the mind there is only mathematics. And this math has been anthropically selected by the mind.

Well put. Mind - the epistemological subject - is uniquely characterised by its irreducibly synthetic or compositional character, the reverse polarity of a maximally reduced, "objective" ontology. This is implicitly assumed by everyone, but explicitly acknowledged by hardly anybody. Consequently the typical response whenever I express this thought is blank incomprehension.

It is hard to explain. It seems to me that the thought experience illustrate this.

But the incompleteness phenomenon justifies this by making the first person of a machine a necessarily non formal object from the point of view of view of the machine. The machine can describe in her language its possible bodies, and its beliefs, (Bp) but no correct machine can define its knowledge (Bp & p) in its language. The knower has no name for itself, and its logic (S4Grz) does describe an epistemic sort of solipisist.

We do agree on this, and I can only invite you take into account computer science. The incompleteness makes the Theatetical definition of knowledge working on machine, at the price of making the machine firs person self not self-nameable. It makes it ways of reasoning informal, for herself of similar neighbors. The first person is irreducible to anything formal, which makes her bet on a level of substitution into an act of faith.



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