Le 21-juil.-12, à 18:11, John Clark a écrit :

On Sat, Jul 21, 2012  Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:


And so they are no longer catholic theologians, they should be proud of their excommunication and shout from the rooftops "Good riddance to bad rubbish!".

Things are not that Black and White. The churches pervert an original idea, but don't make it disappear entirely.




> Why do you defend them? Why does atheists always defend the most conservative position in religion? It looks like defending something stupid just to be able to say "I don't believe in it".

I think the ultimate nightmare would be to be tortured to give information that you simply did not have, that's what would happen to me if the Gestapo demanded I explain what you were talking about in the above.   

The fact is that you act th same toward free will and theology, and probably toward the mind-body problem, each time by pointing on some popular discourse without ever addressing the question behind. You confuse concepts with their plausible misconception of it.






And so if you tell me "Bob is a theologian" I know absolutely posatively nothing about Bob because now the word "Theologian" has joined "atheist", "theist", "God" and of course "free will" as words that mean absolutely positively nothing. 

Do you have an answer for what we can expect through death? Can you justify it, and in which theory?

If yes, you have a theology.
If no, either you make research, and believe in theology, or you don't make research and are not interested in theology.

When I addressed that "mortality" question and showed that computationalism makes the question just more difficult, but partially formulable in arithmetic, I was told that it was "theology", as it is with the large defiition I gave, because assuming comp, it is related with non provable truth (by the machine, for itself).








And so if you tell me "X is a religion" you have told me nothing about X because meaning needs contrast and everything is a religion is equivalent to nothing is a religion 

But nobody ever said that everything is religion.
OK, with comp "correct human science is included in correct human theology" (as G is included in G*), but 1) the inclusion is strict, and 2) from a human point of view, there is necessarily an act of faith if he want to apply that theology in practice (like when accepting the surgeon's proposition).

May be you were just confusing "theory of everything" (which includes the question of afterlife, existence of souls, persons, gods, etc.) with everything. Of course those are different.

Bruno



and "religion" has now joined "theologian" "atheist", "theist", "God" and  "free will" as words that mean precisely nothing. At this rate of word extinction soon we'll have nothing but grunts to communicate with.

  John K Clark



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