On 10 Aug 2012, at 18:18, meekerdb wrote:
On 8/10/2012 3:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
This is not obvious for me, and I have to say that it is a point
which is put in doubt by the salvia divinorum reports (including
mine). When you dissociate the brain in parts, perhaps many parts,
you realise that they might all be conscious. In fact the very idea
of non-consciousness might be a construct of consciousness, and be
realized by partial amnesia. I dunno. For the same reason I have
stopped to believe that we can be unconscious during sleep. I think
that we can only be amnesic-of-'previous-consciousness'.
I have never supposed that asleep=unconscious. When one is asleep,
one is still perceptive; just trying whispering a sleeping person's
name near them. This is quite different from being unconscious due
to a concussion.
OK.
But I think we remain conscious after concussion, except that the
first person go through amnesia or sequence of amnesia, and also that
the notion of you can momentarily change a lot, and this followed by
amnesia.
I agree that being unconscious might be a combination of loss of all
bodily control plus a loss of memory.
I am not sure. It is conceivable that we can remain conscious and lost
all memories. But I thought before that we were still obliged to have
a short term memory of the immediate conscious experience itself, so
that consciousness implies a short term memory of elementary time
events, but I am no more sure about this.
Like Brouwer I related strongly consciousness with subjective time,
but I am relinquishing that link since more recently. That's just more
doubts and foods for thought!
But that seems an unlikely coincidence. Rather it is evidence that
memory is physical
?
and that consciousness requires memory.
The conscious feeling of identity requires memory, but I am not sure
that consciousness needs more "memory" than the minimal number of flip-
flop needed to get a universal system, to which I begin to think has
already a disconnected form of consciousness. Again, it is not the
system itself which is conscious it is the abstract person it
represents, or can represent.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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