Hi Bruno Marchal God is just but he has to apply his justice to a contingent, imperfect world-- although Leibniz suggests that it is the best posible world.
The scientific method cannot tell the just from the unjust. Would you trust your fate to the scientific method ? I sure wouldn't. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/20/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-20, 05:45:13 Subject: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy. On 20 Sep 2012, at 08:01, meekerdb wrote: On 9/19/2012 10:50 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:09 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone may be almost contradictory, for they may realize the identity of all minds, and therefore they would be torturing themselves. That would be an inconsistency of values, but not a logical contradiction. The thing about religion is that we shouldn't believe it because it's FALSE, not because it's BAD. Something could be BAD but TRUE. I find it odd that both religious and anti-religious people often miss this point and talk about the good or bad effects (respectively) of religious belief. Well of course that is because almost all religions claim that their revelation defines what is good and bad, independent of mere human opinion. So if one shows that the revelation's definition of good or bad is preposterous (like an all loving God who tortures people for not worshipping Him) then at least that much of the theology is false. Yes, the hope for God is most of the time a hope for Good, and for ultimate justice. Of course once we do theology with the scientific method, we have to keep in mind not to fall in wishful thinking, even if it appears that wishful thinking might play a role in the building of realities (as this can't be excluded too). Of course I mean "ideal science", as the human science is also influenced by wishes. "Either God wants to abolish evil and cannot; or he can, but does not want to; or he cannot, and does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If he neither can, nor wants to, he is both powerless and wicked. But if God can abolish evil, and wants to, then how comes evil in the world?'" --- Epicurus Good summary of a key theological problem. The platonist answer is that God is impotent, on this. Matter is the evil locus where God lose control, a bit like God cannot predict where you will feel after a self-duplication. In comp and Platonism (in the greek old sense, not in math), and perhaps in QM, evil and matter have a similar origin: indeterminacy. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.