Hi Bruno Marchal  

The nazis did everything by the scientific method-
using Darwin as a guide.

Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 

----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Bruno Marchal  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-09-20, 05:45:13 
Subject: Re: the "nothing but" fallacy. 

On 20 Sep 2012, at 08:01, meekerdb wrote: 

On 9/19/2012 10:50 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: 

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:09 AM, meekerdb  wrote: 

On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: 

Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone may be 

almost contradictory, for they may realize the identity of all minds, and 

therefore they would be torturing themselves. 

That would be an inconsistency of values, but not a logical contradiction. 

The thing about religion is that we shouldn't believe it because it's 

FALSE, not because it's BAD. Something could be BAD but TRUE. I find 

it odd that both religious and anti-religious people often miss this 

point and talk about the good or bad effects (respectively) of 

religious belief. 

Well of course that is because almost all religions claim that their revelation 
defines what is good and bad, independent of mere human opinion.  So if one 
shows that the revelation's definition of good or bad is preposterous (like an 
all loving God who tortures people for not worshipping Him) then at least that 
much of the theology is false. 

Yes, the hope for God is most of the time a hope for Good, and for ultimate 
justice. Of course once we do theology with the scientific method, we have to 
keep in mind not to fall in wishful thinking, even if it appears that wishful 
thinking might play a role in the building of realities (as this can't be 
excluded too). 

Of course I mean "ideal science", as the human science is also influenced by 

"Either God wants to abolish evil and cannot; or he can, but 
does not want to; or he cannot, and does not want to.  If he 
wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not 
want to, he is wicked.  If he neither can, nor wants to, he is 
both powerless and wicked. But if God can abolish evil, and wants 
to, then how comes evil in the world?'" 
     --- Epicurus 

Good summary of a key theological problem. The platonist answer is that God is 
impotent, on this. Matter is the evil locus where God lose control, a bit like 
God cannot predict where you will feel after a self-duplication. In comp and 
Platonism (in the greek old sense, not in math), and perhaps in QM,  evil and 
matter have a similar origin: indeterminacy. 



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