On 21 Sep 2012, at 12:21, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
I think we should only use the word "exists" only when we are
referring to physical existence.
Hmm.... That might aggravate the naturalist or materialist human
penchant.
Thus I can truthfully say,
for example, that God does not exist.
Wikipedia says, "In common usage, it [existence]
is the world we are aware of through our senses,
and that persists independently without them."
But that points on the whole problem. With comp and QM, even when you
observe the moon, it is not "really" there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence
On the other hand, Platonia, Plotinus, Plato, Kant and Leibniz,
take the opposite view or what is real and what exists. To them ideas
and other nonphysical items such as numbers or anything not extended
in space,
anything outside of spacetime are what exist, the physical world out
there is merely an appearance, a phenomenon. Following Leibniz,
I would say of such things that they live, since life has
such attributes.
Hmm... Then numbers lives, but with comp, only universal or Lobian
numbers can be said reasonably enough to be living. You might go to
far. Even in Plato, the Noùs content (all the ideas) is richer that
its living part. I doubt Plato would have said that a circle is
living. Life will need the soul to enact life in the intelligible.
So when we say that a man exists, we are speaking of the physical man.
But when we say that he lives, we are speaking of man as a mental or
living being.
The person and its body. OK. For the term "exist" I think we should
allow all reading, and just ask people to remind us of the sense
before the use.
With comp, all the exists comes from the "ExP(x)" use in arithmetic,
and their arithmetical epistemological version, like []Ex[]P(x), or
[]<>Ex[]<>P(x), etc.
That gives a testable toy theology (testable as such a theology
contains the physics as a subpart).
Bruno
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-21, 04:10:52
Subject: Re: Numbers in Space
On 21 Sep 2012, at 03:28, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 9/20/2012 12:14 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:48:15 AM UTC-4, Jason wrote:
It's not doing the computations that is hard, the computations are
already there. The problem is learning their results.
The problem is doing anything in the first place. Computations don't
do anything at all. The reason that we do things is that we are not
computations. We use computations. We can program things, but we
can't thing programs without something to thing them with. This is a
fatal flaw. If Platonia exists, it makes no sense for anything other
than Platonia to exist. It would be redundant to go through the
formality of executing any function is already executed non-locally.
Why 'do' anything?
Bruno can 't answer that question. He is afraid that it will
corrupt Olympia.
Not at all, the answer is easy here. In the big picture, that is
arithmetic, nothing is done. The computations are already "done" in
it. "doing things" is a relative internal notion coming from the
first person perspectives.
Also, Platonia does not really exist, nor God, as existence is what
belongs to Platonia. Comp follows Plotinus on this, both God and
Matter does not belong to the category exist (ontologically). They
are epistemological beings.
Bruno
--
Onward!
Stephen
http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html
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