Hi,
Anyone serious about knowing truths must either spend its life trying to
define the concept of existence and fighting for it or
to discard it for all uses. The concept of phisical exsitence has a
primitive utilitary nature:  Are there men in the other side of the
mountain?. This urgent need to fix the knowledge of the phisical
environment makes existence something crucial for communication.

More sophisticated civilizations added to the existence more subtle
concepts, which had effects in the personal and social life of the people:
philosophical, psichological , political, religious. In this sense
materialism is a return to primitivism.

In pragmatic terms,  anything that has effects in life exist. Are you
humans with hands, minds etc  or are you allucinations, robots?
I don´t know it properly, but you exist for me.

This makes the concept of existence redundant, or at most, a matter of
public consensus in the context of a community. But probably existence has
never been more than this.

Alberto.

2012/9/21 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>

>
> On 21 Sep 2012, at 12:21, Roger Clough wrote:
>
> Hi Bruno Marchal
>
> I think we should only use the word "exists"  only when we are
> referring to physical existence.
>
>
> Hmm.... That might aggravate the naturalist or materialist human penchant.
>
>
>
>
> Thus I can truthfully say,
> for example, that God does not exist.
> Wikipedia says, "In common usage, it [existence]
> is the world we are aware of through our senses,
> and that persists independently without them."
>
>
> But that points on the whole problem. With comp and QM, even when you
> observe the moon, it is not "really" there.
>
>
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence
>
> On the other hand, Platonia, Plotinus, Plato, Kant and Leibniz,
> take the opposite view or what is real and what exists. To them ideas
> and other nonphysical items such as numbers or anything not extended in
> space,
> anything outside of spacetime are what exist, the physical world out
> there is merely an appearance, a phenomenon.  Following Leibniz,
> I would say of such things that they live, since life has
> such attributes.
>
>
> Hmm... Then numbers lives, but with comp, only universal or Lobian numbers
> can be said reasonably enough to be living. You might go to far. Even in
> Plato, the Noùs content (all the ideas) is richer that its living part. I
> doubt Plato would have said that a circle is living. Life will need the
> soul to enact life in the intelligible.
>
>
>
>
> So when we say that a man exists, we are speaking of the physical man.
> But when we say that he lives, we are speaking of man as a mental or
> living being.
>
>
> The person and its body. OK. For the term "exist" I think we should allow
> all reading, and just ask people to remind us of the sense before the use.
>
> With comp, all the exists comes from the "ExP(x)" use in arithmetic, and
> their arithmetical epistemological version, like []Ex[]P(x),
> or []<>Ex[]<>P(x), etc.
>
> That gives a testable toy theology (testable as such a theology contains
> the physics as a subpart).
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> From: Bruno Marchal
> Receiver: everything-list
> Time: 2012-09-21, 04:10:52
> Subject: Re: Numbers in Space
>
>
>
>
> On 21 Sep 2012, at 03:28, Stephen P. King wrote:
>
>
> On 9/20/2012 12:14 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:48:15 AM UTC-4, Jason wrote:
>
>
>
>
> It's not doing the computations that is hard, the computations are already
> there.  The problem is learning their results.
>
> The problem is doing anything in the first place. Computations don't do
> anything at all. The reason that we do things is that we are not
> computations. We use computations. We can program things, but we can't
> thing programs without something to thing them with. This is a fatal flaw.
> If Platonia exists, it makes no sense for anything other than Platonia to
> exist. It would be redundant to go through the formality of executing any
> function is already executed non-locally. Why 'do' anything?
>
>
>    Bruno can 't answer that question. He is afraid that it will corrupt
> Olympia.
>
>
>
> Not at all, the answer is easy here. In the big picture, that is
> arithmetic, nothing is done. The computations are already "done" in it.
> "doing things" is a relative internal notion coming from the first person
> perspectives.
>
>
> Also, Platonia does not really exist, nor God, as existence is what
> belongs to Platonia. Comp follows Plotinus on this, both God and Matter
> does not belong to the category exist (ontologically). They are
> epistemological beings.
>
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Onward!
>
> Stephen
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html
>
>
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-- 
Alberto.

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