On 10/2/2012 5:57 PM, John Mikes wrote:
Stephen (and Bruno?)
What I called The Aris - Total- meaning Aristotle's maxim that /the 'whole' is bigger than the sum of its parts/ - means something else in MY agnosticism. Originally I included only the fact what Bruno pointed out now: that the PARTS (as accounted for) develop relations (qualia) adding to the totality they participate in. Lately, however, I added to my view that beyond the accountable *_parts _*(forget now the relations) there are participant 'inconnu'-s from outside our (inventoried) model knowable as of yesterday. So whatever we take inventory of is an (accountable) *_partial_* only. Beyond that - of course - Aristotle's 'total' (/_"material parts only")_/ of his inventory was truly smaller than the above *_TOTAL_* in its entire complexity. The fact that complexity-parts extracted, or replaced may not discontinue the function of the 'total' is my problem with death: how to identify THOSE important components which are inevitable for maintaining the function as was? (Comes back to my negative attitude towards transport - hype (to Moscow, or another planet/universe) - complexity has uncountable connections in the infinite relations. How much could we possibly include (in our wildest fantasy) into the tele-transporting of a "person" (or whatever) so that the original functionality should be still detectable?)
Heavenly afterlife anybody?
John Mikes


Hi John,

"Aris", I like it! One question is how much of one's sense of self and memories can be carried across. Function does not seem to do this alone as it is completely independent of the physical "body".



On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 11:57 PM, Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net <mailto:stephe...@charter.net>> wrote:

    On 10/1/2012 1:00 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

            Physiological realities are mechanistic. Biologists and
            doctors are
            mechanists. Even if you claim that "the whole is greater
            than the sum
            of its parts" that does not mean that if yoyu replace the
            parts the
            whole will stop working.


        Yes. Anti-mechanist often refer to "the whole is bigger than
        the parts", but nowhere else than in computer and engineering
        is it more true that the whole is bigger than the part, if
        only because the whole put some specific structure on the
        relation between parts.
        We might simplify this by saying that the whole *structural
        complexity* grows like an exponential (or more) when the whole
        cardinality grows linearly.


    H Bruno,

        Could you source some further discussions of this idea? From
    my own study of Cantor's tower of infinities, I have found the
    opposite, complexity goes to zero as the cardinals lose the
    ability to be named.



    --


--
Onward!

Stephen

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