Hi Russell Standish  

A self-organizing system is not what I proposed because 
in such a system it is the output (Thirdness) that organizes   
itself. And "autopoetics" is also apparently a misleading term. 
I was seduced by its academic associations.  

Instead, I see now that what I am proposing is  
"Computational Secondness." This would be a 
Peirce-type epistemological machine, where  

Firstness  = the raw input = perception, consciousness 
Secondness= that which creates order out of the Firstness (the living, 
intelligent part) 
Thirdness = the structured or ordered output, which may be alive or not be 
alive. 

Intelligence in my machine is pure Secondness.  


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
10/15/2012  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 

----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Russell Standish  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-10-14, 17:27:50 
Subject: Re: Computational Autopoetics 1 

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 04:44:11PM -0400, Roger Clough wrote: 
> "Computational Autopoetics" is a term I just coined to denote applying basic 
> concepts  
> of autopoetics to the field of comp. You mathematicians are free to do it 
> more justice  
> than I can. I cannot guarantee that the idea hasn't already been exploited, 
> but I have  
> seen no indication of that.  
>  
> The idea is this: that we borrow a basic characteristic of autopoetics, 
> namely that life is  
> essentially not a thing but the act of creation. This means that we define  
> life as the creative act of generating structure from some input data. By 
> this  
> pramatic definition, it is not necessarily the structure that is produced 
> that is alive, but  
> life consists of the act of creating structure from assumedly structureless 
> input data.  
> Life is not a creation, but instead is the act of creation. 
So any self-organised system should be called alive then? Sand dunes, 
huricanes, stars, galaxies. Hey, we've just found ET! 
Actually, I was just reading an interview with my old mate Charley 
Lineweaver in New Scientist, and he was saying the same thing :). 

>  
> If life is such a creative act rather than a creation, then it seems to fit 
> what  
> I have been postulating as the basic inseparable ingredients of life: 
> intelligence  
> and free will.  
I don't believe intelligence is required for creativity. Biological 
evolution is undeniably creative. 
... Rest deleted, because I cannot follow you there. 
--  
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) 
Principal, High Performance Coders 
Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au 
University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au 
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Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
10/15/2012  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 


----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Russell Standish  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-10-14, 17:27:50 
Subject: Re: Computational Autopoetics 1 


On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 04:44:11PM -0400, Roger Clough wrote: 
> "Computational Autopoetics" is a term I just coined to denote applying basic 
> concepts  
> of autopoetics to the field of comp. You mathematicians are free to do it 
> more justice  
> than I can. I cannot guarantee that the idea hasn't already been exploited, 
> but I have  
> seen no indication of that.  
>  
> The idea is this: that we borrow a basic characteristic of autopoetics, 
> namely that life is  
> essentially not a thing but the act of creation. This means that we define  
> life as the creative act of generating structure from some input data. By 
> this  
> pramatic definition, it is not necessarily the structure that is produced 
> that is alive, but  
> life consists of the act of creating structure from assumedly structureless 
> input data.  
> Life is not a creation, but instead is the act of creation. 

So any self-organised system should be called alive then? Sand dunes, 
huricanes, stars, galaxies. Hey, we've just found ET! 

Actually, I was just reading an interview with my old mate Charley 
Lineweaver in New Scientist, and he was saying the same thing :). 


>  
> If life is such a creative act rather than a creation, then it seems to fit 
> what  
> I have been postulating as the basic inseparable ingredients of life: 
> intelligence  
> and free will.  

I don't believe intelligence is required for creativity. Biological 
evolution is undeniably creative. 

... Rest deleted, because I cannot follow you there. 

--  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) 
Principal, High Performance Coders 
Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au 
University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

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