On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>wrote:

> while most people are content to accept that these [physical]  'laws'
> simply 'are', I am more inclined to question what exactly we mean by that.

It's a pity you weren't also inclined to question what exactly we mean by
"free will" given that you love to make that sound and write that ASCII
sequence so much.

>What law allows laws to simply exist?

I don't know and don't know why such things are needed, or even desired.

 > I am asking about the origin of 'reason' itself:

I don't even know if reason had a origin and neither do you.

> > How can reason be created (for the very first time in the cosmos) for a
> reason

Beats me. I don't know if there was a "very first time", logic does not
demand that there be one; and even if there were logic doesn't demand that
everything happen for a reason.

> fails because it is circular

Describe that circle.

  > fails because it attributes something from nothing

Nothing wrong with that, and even if there were your "theory" would be in
as much trouble as mine or anybody's theory.

> Do you see that you argument against free will is also an argument
> against the existence of any reason at all?

No I don't see that. There are no arguments against free will and there are
no arguments in favor of free will and there never can be any such
arguments until we know what the hell "free will" is supposed to mean. I
don't know and I am certain that you don't know either because if you did
by now you would have told me; but all I get is circularity and gibberish.
Tell me in a clear non-circular way what "free will" is and I'll be happy
to debate with you if Human beings have this property or not, but until
then there is nothing to debate.

> You are claiming that causality emerged from randomness

I am claiming that I don't know, and admitting to such is far superior to
claiming wisdom YOU DO NOT HAVE. Maybe causality did emerged from
randomness, or maybe causality emerged from nothingness, or maybe causality
didn't need to emerge from anything because it has always existed and so
there was no first causal event, or maybe my brain is just too small to
figure it out. I don't know and neither do you.

 > but that free will could not have emerged the same way.

Cannot comment, don't know what ASCII sequence "free will" means.

> I got an A in algebra.

And I was a math major.

>>> Functions potentially cause physical changes.
>> >> And so can rules.
> > Explain to me how exactly that happens. Use a real example please.

Gravity sucks is a rule. Eggs thrown off Leaning Tower of Pisa break.
Breaking eggs is physical change.

> >>> Why couldn't you function if you believed you were the only conscious
>>> being in the universe?
>> >> I think we can all agree that's a pretty stupid question. As I've
>> said, just negating everything your opponent says doesn't work, you've got
>> to have a strategy.
> > I didn't negate anything - you did. I asked you a question. You did not
> answer it because you don't have an answer for it,

Because Craig Weinberg doesn't think the answer to that question is obvious
I can only conclude that he is the most antisocial person who ever lived,
he is the one and only Human that wouldn't be profoundly psychologically
troubled to discover that he was the only conscious being in the Universe.
Craig Weinberg would take the news in stride and continue on with his daily
activities as usual. As for me, I wouldn't be worth a bucket of warm spit
if I found that out.

  John K Clark

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