On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just because it looks to us that the computer is following rules doesn't
> mean that it is.
So now you don't like computers because they don't follow rules, before you
didn't like computers because they did follow rules.
> We should not assume that suddenly a disembodied conscious agent appears
> somewhere just because we are impressed with the sophistication of a
> particular reflex action.
We weren't talking about consciousness we were talking about intelligence,
but I can understand why you'd want to change the subject because
consciousness speculation is so easy and intelligence speculation is so
> Reflexes can be as complicated as we want to make them, it doesn't turn
> them into voluntary actions.
Just like everything else reflexes and voluntary actions happen for a
reason or they do not happen for a reason.
> The computer still has no choices.
Just like everything else a computer chooses X and not Y for a reason or a
computer chooses X and not Y for no reason.
>It can't throw a match because it doesn't want to hurt someone's feelings.
Not true. Winning the game might not even be the computer's goal, its goal
might be to cheer up the human. And the computer can certainly include the
emotional state of it's human opponent in its decision making process if it
had a database about how to deduce human emotions from human behavior.
True, the computer might make the wrong connection between behavior and
emotion, but the humans might be wrong about that too; in fact we know for
a fact that sometimes they are, sometimes people misread people.
> What makes intelligence is the ability to step out of the system, to
> transcend the rules entirely or understand them in a new context. Computers
> don't do that.
Hey Craig, no matter how hard you try to spin it, no matter how bad a loser
you are, the fact remains that you just got your ass handed to you by a
computer in that game of Chess you had with it, and again at checkers, and
in that equation solving game, and at Jeopardy. I don't care if you or the
computer transcended the rules or didn't transcend the rules because it
doesn't change the fact that the computer won and YOU LOST!
I remember when I was in grade school playing softball at recess the losing
team ALWAYS accused the winning team of cheating, it was tradition. Adults
aren't supposed to do that sort of whining, but often they do.
John K Clark
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