On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:15 AM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You will be placed into a room with an exact clone of yourself and you
>> will be given a gun. If you shoot your clone you can leave that room and
>> everything will be fine. Or, if you shoot yourself your clone will be
>> allowed to leave the room and will be given $1,000,000. What do you do?
> A identical twin is a clone, you're talking about a exact duplicate and I
> would shoot him. I was given a gun and I was forced to make a very
> emotional decision and my duplicate was not, so I have intense memories
> that he does not so we are no longer the same person even if we once were.
You are closer to him than the you from two weeks ago. And you probably go
to work every day and save money only to give it to an old man and give him
a nice retirement, and that old man is even less like you. So why not
instead give $1,000,000 to someone who is much more like you than your
future retired self?
> > To clarify, I mean if the substrate of your consciousness is duplicated,
>> then the singular mind "John Clark" will have multiple manifestations.
>> Destroying one of the manifestations will not destroy John Clark so long as
>> there is at least one surviving manifestation.
> > What numerous scientific theories suggest (Eternal Inflation, Many
>> Worlds, Mathematical Realism, String Theory Landscape to name a few) is
>> that each of us has an infinite number of manifestations, in whatever
>> possible state we might enter.
> In String Theory there might not be a infinite number, there might only be
> 10^500 or so, but nobody is really sure.
10^500 is a lower bound (how many unique compactifications have been
counted) but the total amount may be infinite. But even if it is not, this
is just the number of physical models that can be formed through string
theory. But of course this says nothing about how many manifestations of
your mind might exist across all those different universes. If space is
infinite in extent only a single universe is required for you to appear
> > Thus we are all immortal, survive everything, consciousness never ends,
>> our states are interlinked and can intersect, thus we reincarnate, we
>> resurrect to afterlives in far away places and different universes and
> I have a modest proposal, it's a low tech way to test the Many World's
> interpretation of Quantum Mechanics and as a bonus it'll make you rich too.
> First you buy one Powerball lottery ticket, the drawing of the winning
> number is at 11pm tomorrow, now make a simple machine that will pull the
> trigger on a 44 magnum aimed at you head at exactly 11:01pm UNLESS yours is
> the winning ticket. Your subjective experience can only be that at 11.01pm
> despite 80 million to one odds stacked against you a miracle occurs and the
> gun does not go off and you're rich beyond the dreams of avarice. Of course
> for every universe you're rich in there are 80 million in which your
> friends watch your head explode, but that's a minor point, your
> consciousness no longer exists in any of those worlds so you never have to
> see the mess, it's their problem not yours.
See Christopher Maloney's thread:
> > Also, even if we always survive from a first-person perspective, there
>> are things that might decrease our measure and thus it could be said that
>> the "universal soul" who experiences everything will experience being "John
>> Clark" less frequently.
> That does not compute, especially if there are a infinite number of
> worlds; if your consciousness exists in only one world in 10^500 it
> survives in the same number of worlds as it does not survive in because
> both are infinite.
If all experiences were equiprobable then we would expect not to see this
ordered picture of text on our screens, but random snow. So whatever
measure system we are subject to, it's not as simple as equating all of
them because they are all infinite.
> > Imagine if you and your double drew straws and one would be tortured and
>> the other released. The released one might conclude "I sure am glad I
>> wasn't tortured", but is the one who was tortured any better off than if he
>> himself had been tortured, but then had the memories and all traces of that
>> punishment erased from his body? The experience still happened, that you
>> don't remember it from your current perspective does not mean it didn't
> I would define death as having a last thought, if there were no more
> duplicates and I erased part of your memories then that version of you had
> a last memory and is dead, although earlier versions of you might still be
In an infinite universe with infinite possibility, it's not clear to me
there can be a last thought.
> A disturbing thought is that if there are a infinite and not just a
> astronomically large number of copies of you then some of then are going to
> be tortured for eternity.
But they always have some non-zero chance of escaping to another universe
(from their first person perspective).
>> > If you had a perfectly identical twin (same memories and everything)
>> but your twin committed murder,
> The smart thing to do would be for both of us to confess under oath to the
> murder, the authorities know only one of us did it but they don't know
> which one and they can't put both of us in the electric chair because they
> know one of us did not commit murder. They can't even convict us of perjury
> because they also know one of us did not commit perjury. They'd have to let
> us both go.
That's some very strategic thinking. :-)
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