*Bruno*, I cannot keep up with argumentation that includes opposites to ALL
tenets previously stated. Who knows what kind of *'hardwire"* does a brain
have (I mean: not the physiological tissue-construct, but the complex brain*
function* also called 'brain). Anatomists, physiologists, neurologists and
other conservative scientists know only peripheral characteristics and
details.
 The "hard problem" functionality (mentality etc.) is still in our dreams.
We (I at least) have not cracked (yet?) YOUR  *'universal machine'*thinking.

If* Stathis* guesses that Lucy used only ~0,1% of her (available?) mental
capabilities (=hardware) in HER lifestyle, I don't think 99.9% of her
brain-hardware was unused and was a mere filling to her skull. That would
not click with nature's so far observed economy. That also would not jibe
with the development of new species with increased capabilities from the
simpler ones in their ancestors.
Development seems to work in concerted steps - one requirement brings about
another one that helps - and so on. And this - IMO - is  *B O T H
*hardware and software, the discerned two components which I consider our
human artifacts - borrowed from our primitive, embryonic binary kraxlwerk
computer - rather than being original distinctions (terms?) of the infinite
natural complexity.

*Question to Bruno*: can *YOU* 'reprogram' a universal computer? does it
have a closed (though maybe immense) finite hardware and a changeable
software?

John M

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

> John,
>
> A fixed universal machine (some hardwired one, like a brain or a laptop)
> can emulate a self-modifying universal machine, even one which modifies
> itself "completely".
>
> Bruno
>
>
> On 26 Oct 2012, at 23:08, John Mikes wrote:
>
> Stathis:
>
> IMO you left out one difference in equating computer and human: the
> programmed comp. cannot exceed its hardwre - given content while
> (SOMEHOW???) a human mind receives additional information from parts
> 'unknown' (see the steps forward in cultural history of the sciences?) -
> accordingly a 'programmed' human may have resources beyond it's given
> "hardware" content.
>
> John M
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Stathis Papaioannou 
> <stath...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Intentionally lying, defying it's programming, committing murder would
>> all
>> > be good indicators. Generally when an error is blamed on the computer
>> itself
>> > rather than the programming, that would be a good sign.
>>
>> A computer cannot defy its programming but nothing whatsoever can defy
>> its programming. What you do when you program a computer, at the basic
>> level, is put its hardware in a particular configuration. The hardware
>> can then only move into future physical states consistent with that
>> configuration. "Defying its programming" would mean doing something
>> *not* consistent with its initial state and the laws of physics.
>> That's not possible for  - and you have explicitly agreed with this,
>> saying I misunderstood you when I claimed otherwise - either a
>> computer or a human.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stathis Papaioannou
>>
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