On 11/2/2012 10:48 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/2/2012 3:19 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 11/2/2012 12:49 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 01 Nov 2012, at 21:33, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 11/1/2012 11:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 01 Nov 2012, at 00:35, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 10/31/2012 9:39 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
1) Yes, numbers float in a sea of universal mind (the One).
2) Here's a thought. If the universe acts like a gigantic
homunculus, with the supreme monad or One as its mind,
then could there be a solipsism to our universe such that
other multiverse versions of oiur universe could not access
(the mind of) ours ? Would this be a problem for multiverse
Roger Clough,rclo...@verizon.net 10/31/2012
I think that this idea is exactly wrong. The idea that "numbers
float in a sea of universal mind (the One)" makes the explanation
an infinite regress.
Replace the One by arithmetical truth, and the infinite regress
Only if arithmetic truth is theory independent,
Gödel + Tarski => Arithmetical Truth is so independent of any
effective theory that no such theory can get it. mathematical logic,
and math, cannot have any meaning without arithmetical truth being
independent of theories.
"Truth is Independence of theories" cannot mean that truth is a
meaningful value in the primitive ontological level. The relation
'Gödel + Tarski => Arithmetical Truth' cannot even exist as a
meaningful expression because there is no differentiation of
expression at the ontologically primitive level. The same argument
that disallows for the existence of a self-aware Universal mind
applies. Let me step through a crude sketch of the argument here.
collection of facts is such that there is no facts that is not
included, it must cover all possible worlds (ala Kripke), it must be
The universal set of all facts is not a self-consistent set as
there exists facts in one world that are inconsistent with facts in
some other possible world.
A mind is such that its facts are mutually consistent or else it
is insane or non-self-aware.
A self-aware mind must have some knowledge of facts concerning
its existence or else it is not self-aware.
must "know all facts of all possible worlds" or else it would not be
A Universal mind is thus either insane (inconsistent) or
I don't see any 'either/or'. Your premises imply an universal mind is
impossible - one cannot KNOW contradictory propositions; whether one
is self-aware or not.
I like the way you think! ;-)
but that ruins your result! It truth is theory independent then it
is impossible for us to be able to know of it.
That is mathematical solipsism.
I know! My point is that comp implies the singular existence of a
mind (universal number that is the sum of all other universal
numbers) that is incapable of knowing what it is as there is nothing
within its preview that is it not. It is a Universal Mind
It is obviously false.
Theories are lantern on little pieces of the truth, which does not
depend on the theory, even if the lantern can bring shadows, and
also hid some other piece of truth.
You insist on the concept of truth as a Platonic Object with
innate properties. I disagree with this concept as I see it as
All this makes sense only because such truth does not depend on us
and on our theories.
No, that is an incoherent statement as it pretends to be
meaningful in the absence of any means to evaluate its meaningfulness.
So what means do you used to evaluate, "Either snow is white or snow
is not white."?
My eyes can still discriminate colors from each other... I use them.
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