Hi Bruno Marchal 

Sorry, where are the steps of UD ?



[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
11/20/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-11-19, 09:33:19
Subject: Re: Reality Check: You Are Not a Computer Simulation [Audio]




On 19 Nov 2012, at 11:22, Roger Clough wrote:


Hi Bruno Marchal 

I thought that comp is exactly opposite to what you say,
that computationalism is the belief that we can simulate
the mind with a computer program-- that the mind is computable.


Yes that is correct (if by mind you mean the 3p feature of mind, and not 
consciousness per se).


What I wrote in the quote (below) is that the physical reality is not 
completely Turing emulable, once we assume the mind is.


Comp is just the idea that I can survive with a computer at the place of the 
brain. This does NOT mean that a computer create the consciousness. It means 
only that the consciousness can only be made manifestable through relative 
bodies, but it exists only in Platonia. But then matter too, and it relies 
statistically on all computations going through my current comp states, and the 
math shows that this will include some continuous/analog observable.


I am not sure this can be understood without getting a personal understanding 
of at least the first seven step of the UD reasoning.


Bruno







[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
11/19/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-11-18, 07:46:20
Subject: Re: Reality Check: You Are Not a Computer Simulation [Audio]


On 17 Nov 2012, at 22:25, meekerdb wrote:

>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
>>
>> More In This Article
>> * Overview
>> _Is Quantum Reality Analog after All?_
>> (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=is-quantum-reality-analog-after-all
>>  
>> )
>>
>>
>>
>> Conventional wisdom says that quantum mechanics is a theory of
>> discreteness, describing a world of irreducible building blocks. 
>> It stands to reason
>> that computers??which process information in discrete 
>> chunks??should be able
>> to simulate nature fully, at least in principle. But it turns out 
>> that
>> certain asymmetries in particle physics cannot be discretized; 
>> they are
>> irreducibly continuous. In that case, says David Tong, author of 
>> "_Is Quantum
>> Reality Analog after All?_
>> (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=is-quantum-reality-analog-after-all
>>  
>> ) " in the December 2012 issue of
>> Scientific American, the world can never be fully simulated on a 
>> computer.


That would be a nice confirmation of comp. As I have often insisted 
digital physics (the world can be fully be Turing emulated) violated 
the consequence of comp which makes necessary the presence of non 
computable observable, and even non enumerable spectra.

Digital physics is self-contradictory. It implies comp, but comp 
implies the negation of digital physics, so, with or without comp, 
digital physics is contradictory.

Bruno



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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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