On 1/3/2013 9:30 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Stephen P. King
1) I dobn't know what you mean by subjective. Things happen.
Crap happens.
2). You seem to have some incorrect ideas about Leibniz.
Leibniz in no way pretended that he created a perfect system.
The world is far from perfect. All L  did suggest is that God did
the best job he could, considering the constraints of contingency. Consider
volcanoes and the tectonic plates, the sometimes evil tendencies of man.
And our perceptions, for excample, are distorted. Our hearts
are distorted. And bad things can happen, there's nothing to prevent
in a contingent world .

Hi Roger,

The entire idea that our lives are in the hands of some ultimate conscious and controlling agent is a relic of the days of monarchies. The ability to think for ourselves, make choices and learn form consequences is better, IMHO.

[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] <mailto:rclo...@verizon.net]>
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen

    ----- Receiving the following content -----
    *From:* Stephen P. King <mailto:stephe...@charter.net>
    *Receiver:* everything-list <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>
    *Time:* 2013-01-02, 13:37:05
    *Subject:* Re: "The best of all possible Worlds."

    On 1/2/2013 8:21 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
    I forgot add that that's why Leibniz called this
    "The best of all possible Worlds."

    Why bad things happen to good people--Leibniz's Theodicy

    .... As to tornadoes, there are various views, usually
    part of "Theodicies". Here's the view I prefer, that of my
    mentor, Leibniz, explained in his "Theodicy", which
    Voltaire took up in his unfair and totally misinformed
    criticism, the novel "Candide".

    According to Leibniz, there are two forms of being, that
    belonging to perfect, timeless, necessary reason, assigned to Heaven
    or Platonia, and that of contingent, time-dependent and therefore
    undependable reason and perfection (that down here, on earth).
    Scientific theory deals with the former, where time is reversible,
    and scientific experimentation, with the latter, done down here,
    in the world, where time is not reversible.

    Leibniz's view, in his theodicy , which I hold to also, is that
    the world down here, that God created, is necessarily imperfect,
     so, as they say "crap happens". This is because things can't be
    everywhere at the same time. Thus evil and catastrophes are

    Leibniz's theodicy ior justification for God is that God, being
    does the best that he can with the imperfect, partly evuil world
    he has to work with. That is why pray for God to deliver us
    from evil in the Lord's prayer. But we also say "thy will be done."

    [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net
    "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
    Dear Roger,

        Ultimately, all such measures are subjective, being the result
    of some arbitrary cut off here and boundary condition there. Most
    of all, the effects of the finiteness of our condition cannot ever
    be underestimated. One thing that Leibniz failed to comprehend is
    the cost of the perfect system that he attempted to construct.
    Voltair saw it but only as a weakness to lampoon Leibniz' with and
    not to correct, as he and the rest of the classicists where loath
    to give up the Assumption of the voyeuristic observer that can
    somehow see and measure all things. Hidden in their thinking was a
    need to morally justify the inequality between men that their
    system supported.
        We live in a world of costs and scarcity. There is no such
    thing as a free lunch, but if we work hard we can make a cheaper
    lunch. ;-)

-- Onward!





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