Hi Stephen P. King I suppose that you're referring to the cpre-established perfect harmony, which makes it seem as if everything we do is determined (by God).
IMHO that only means that God knows what we will do, not make the decision for us. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-03, 09:49:53 Subject: Re: "The best of all possible Worlds." On 1/3/2013 9:30 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King 1) I dobn't know what you mean by subjective. Things happen. Crap happens. 2). You seem to have some incorrect ideas about Leibniz. Leibniz in no way pretended that he created a perfect system. The world is far from perfect. All L did suggest is that God did the best job he could, considering the constraints of contingency. Consider volcanoes and the tectonic plates, the sometimes evil tendencies of man. And our perceptions, for excample, are distorted. Our hearts are distorted. And bad things can happen, there's nothing to prevent in a contingent world . Hi Roger, The entire idea that our lives are in the hands of some ultimate conscious and controlling agent is a relic of the days of monarchies. The ability to think for ourselves, make choices and learn form consequences is better, IMHO. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-02, 13:37:05 Subject: Re: "The best of all possible Worlds." On 1/2/2013 8:21 AM, Roger Clough wrote: I forgot add that that's why Leibniz called this "The best of all possible Worlds." Why bad things happen to good people--Leibniz's Theodicy .... As to tornadoes, there are various views, usually part of "Theodicies". Here's the view I prefer, that of my mentor, Leibniz, explained in his "Theodicy", which Voltaire took up in his unfair and totally misinformed criticism, the novel "Candide". According to Leibniz, there are two forms of being, that belonging to perfect, timeless, necessary reason, assigned to Heaven or Platonia, and that of contingent, time-dependent and therefore undependable reason and perfection (that down here, on earth). Scientific theory deals with the former, where time is reversible, and scientific experimentation, with the latter, done down here, in the world, where time is not reversible. Leibniz's view, in his theodicy , which I hold to also, is that the world down here, that God created, is necessarily imperfect, so, as they say "crap happens". This is because things can't be good everywhere at the same time. Thus evil and catastrophes are probabilistic. Leibniz's theodicy ior justification for God is that God, being good, does the best that he can with the imperfect, partly evuil world he has to work with. That is why pray for God to deliver us from evil in the Lord's prayer. But we also say "thy will be done." [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/2/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen -- Dear Roger, Ultimately, all such measures are subjective, being the result of some arbitrary cut off here and boundary condition there. Most of all, the effects of the finiteness of our condition cannot ever be underestimated. One thing that Leibniz failed to comprehend is the cost of the perfect system that he attempted to construct. Voltair saw it but only as a weakness to lampoon Leibniz' with and not to correct, as he and the rest of the classicists where loath to give up the Assumption of the voyeuristic observer that can somehow see and measure all things. Hidden in their thinking was a need to morally justify the inequality between men that their system supported. We live in a world of costs and scarcity. There is no such thing as a free lunch, but if we work hard we can make a cheaper lunch. ;-) -- Onward! Stephen - -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.