Hi Stephen P. King  

I suppose that you're referring to the cpre-established perfect harmony, 
which makes it seem as if everything we do is determined (by God). 

IMHO that only means that God knows what we will do, not
make the decision for us.

[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen 
----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Stephen P. King  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2013-01-03, 09:49:53 
Subject: Re: "The best of all possible Worlds." 

On 1/3/2013 9:30 AM, Roger Clough wrote: 

Hi Stephen P. King  

1) I dobn't know what you mean by subjective. Things happen. 
Crap happens. 

2). You seem to have some incorrect ideas about Leibniz. 

Leibniz in no way pretended that he created a perfect system. 
The world is far from perfect. All L  did suggest is that God did  
the best job he could, considering the constraints of contingency. Consider 
volcanoes and the tectonic plates, the sometimes evil tendencies of man. 
And our perceptions, for excample, are distorted. Our hearts 
are distorted. And bad things can happen, there's nothing to prevent  
in a contingent world . 

Hi Roger, 

    The entire idea that our lives are in the hands of some ultimate conscious 
and controlling agent is a relic of the days of monarchies. The ability to 
think for ourselves, make choices and learn form consequences is better, IMHO. 

[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen 
----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Stephen P. King  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2013-01-02, 13:37:05 
Subject: Re: "The best of all possible Worlds." 

On 1/2/2013 8:21 AM, Roger Clough wrote: 

I forgot add that that's why Leibniz called this 
"The best of all possible Worlds." 

Why bad things happen to good people--Leibniz's Theodicy 

.... As to tornadoes, there are various views, usually  
part of "Theodicies". Here's the view I prefer, that of my  
mentor, Leibniz, explained in his "Theodicy", which  
Voltaire took up in his unfair and totally misinformed 
criticism, the novel "Candide".  

According to Leibniz, there are two forms of being, that  
belonging to perfect, timeless, necessary reason, assigned to Heaven  
or Platonia, and that of contingent, time-dependent and therefore 
undependable reason and perfection (that down here, on earth).  
Scientific theory deals with the former, where time is reversible,  
and scientific experimentation, with the latter, done down here,  
in the world, where time is not reversible.  

Leibniz's view, in his theodicy , which I hold to also, is that  
the world down here, that God created, is necessarily imperfect,  
 so, as they say "crap happens". This is because things can't be good  
everywhere at the same time. Thus evil and catastrophes are 

Leibniz's theodicy ior justification for God is that God, being good,  
does the best that he can with the imperfect, partly evuil world 
he has to work with. That is why pray for God to deliver us 
from evil in the Lord's prayer. But we also say "thy will be done." 

[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen  


Dear Roger, 

    Ultimately, all such measures are subjective, being the result of some 
arbitrary cut off here and boundary condition there. Most of all, the effects 
of the finiteness of our condition cannot ever be underestimated. One thing 
that Leibniz failed to comprehend is the cost of the perfect system that he 
attempted to construct. Voltair saw it but only as a weakness to lampoon 
Leibniz' with and not to correct, as he and the rest of the classicists where 
loath to give up the Assumption of the voyeuristic observer that can somehow 
see and measure all things. Hidden in their thinking was a need to morally 
justify the inequality between men that their system supported. 
    We live in a world of costs and scarcity. There is no such thing as a free 
lunch, but if we work hard we can make a cheaper lunch. ;-) 





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