*I Bruno.* * * *I wanted to put geometry in the chain because materialists seems to base their firm belief in the fact that space is both in mathematics, in the reality and in the mind, so space it is the firm thing where "real" things are located. I try to show that space is just our mental representation of a mathematical reality in R3 where information with survival value is presented and "colored" . This information is the matter. and therefore space and matter is only on the mind.** *
*Both chains can be alternative descriptions of the same cosmology (basically). since Arithmetic + computation unfold the set of all structures, including the ones with good properties of simplicity etc. for biology. But there is an introduction of consciousness in your chain that is lacking in the one I propose. * * * *I'm conscious that mine is incomplete since the mind (or consciousness in your case) appears as a derivative and this is not so, since existence properly seen, is not possible without consciousness and therefore it must be more at the beginning of the chain by definition. * * * *A better chain would be, with (<->) in the two first steps since the mind or in your case consciousness is the selector of existence. n your case, I think that consciousness would "cause-back" Arithmetic and computation:* Math<-> Computation<-> Mind -> Geometry -> Space -> Matter 2013/1/13 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> > > On 12 Jan 2013, at 13:48, Alberto G. Corona wrote: > > Space and time may be a perception of the mind in the Kantian sense. I > don´t find that space must be independent of the mind. space and time may > be the way we perceive a space-time manifold which is pure mathematical > and nothing else. Maybe we can see space out there and we can think on > geometrical figures in space (not algebraically) because we have > space-mode rasoning on the mind, not because space is pre-existent to the > mind, neither because space is something in mathematics, because space is > described in math without gemetry. > > And may be that the autopoietic computation, in the forms of natural > selection, life and mind are trajectories in the space-time manifold, > which, when looked closely form outside space-time, they are nothing but > fortunate collisions of particle trajectories and molecules so that entropy > stay controlled along these lines, with no reason but fortunate manifold > structure and fortunate initial conditions. But looked from inside it > appears to have phenomena like matter space, causality, termodinamic > irreversibility, time, minds etc. > > > > OK. My point is that if we assume computationalism it is necessarily so, > and constructively so, so making that hypothesis testable. > > We have the logical entaiment: > > Arithmetic -> computations -> consciousness -> sharable dreams -> physical > reality/matter -> human biology -> human consciousness. > > It is a generalization of "natural selection" operating from arithmetical > truth, and in which the physical reality is itself the result of a > self-selection events (the global first person indeterminacy). > > This generalizes both Darwin and Everett, somehow. > > Bruno > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
