*I Bruno.*
*
*
*I wanted to put geometry in the chain because materialists seems to base
their firm belief in the fact that space is both in mathematics, in the
reality and in the mind, so space it is the firm thing where "real" things
are located. I try to show that  space is just our mental representation of
a mathematical reality in R3 where information with survival value is
 presented and "colored" . This information is the matter. and therefore
space and matter is only on the mind.**
*

*Both chains can be alternative descriptions of the same cosmology
(basically). since Arithmetic + computation unfold the set of all
structures, including the ones with good properties of simplicity etc. for
biology.   But there is an introduction of consciousness  in your chain
that is lacking in the one I propose.  *
*
*
*I'm conscious that  mine is incomplete since the mind (or consciousness in
your case) appears as a derivative and this is not so, since existence
properly seen, is not possible without consciousness and therefore it must
be more at the beginning of the chain by definition. *
*
*
*A better chain would be, with (<->) in the two first steps since the mind
or in your case consciousness is the selector of existence. n your case, I
think that consciousness would "cause-back" Arithmetic and computation:*
Math<-> Computation<-> Mind -> Geometry -> Space -> Matter


2013/1/13 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>

>
> On 12 Jan 2013, at 13:48, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
>
> Space and time may be a perception of the mind in the Kantian sense. I
> donĀ“t find that space must be independent of the mind.  space and time may
> be the way  we perceive a space-time manifold which is pure mathematical
> and nothing else. Maybe we can see space out there and we can think on
> geometrical figures in space (not algebraically)  because we have
> space-mode rasoning on the mind, not because space is pre-existent to the
> mind, neither because space is something in mathematics, because space is
> described in math without gemetry.
>
> And may be that the autopoietic computation, in the forms of natural
> selection, life and mind are trajectories in the space-time manifold,
> which, when looked closely form outside space-time,  they are nothing but
> fortunate collisions of particle trajectories and molecules so that entropy
> stay controlled along these lines, with no reason but fortunate manifold
> structure and fortunate initial conditions.  But looked from inside it
> appears to have phenomena like matter space, causality, termodinamic
> irreversibility, time, minds etc.
>
>
>
> OK. My point is that if we assume computationalism it is necessarily so,
> and constructively so, so making that hypothesis testable.
>
> We have the logical entaiment:
>
> Arithmetic -> computations -> consciousness -> sharable dreams -> physical
> reality/matter -> human biology -> human consciousness.
>
> It is a generalization of "natural selection" operating from arithmetical
> truth, and in which the physical reality is itself the result of a
> self-selection events (the global first person indeterminacy).
>
> This generalizes both Darwin and Everett, somehow.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>  http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
>
>
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-- 
Alberto.

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