On 1/22/2013 10:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 21 Jan 2013, at 20:05, Stephen P. King wrote:On 1/21/2013 8:30 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:If you don't take arithmetic as primitive, I can prove that youcannot derive both addition and multiplication, nor the existence ofcomputer. Then everything around me does not make sense. If youbelieve you can derive them, then do it. But you proceed like aliterary philosophers, so I have doubt you can derive addition andmultiplication in the sense I would wait for.Dear Bruno,Is this statement correctly written? How is it coherent that Ineed to derive from arithmetic that which is already in arithmetic?Stephen, you are the one telling me that you don't assume the numbers,so it is normal that I ask you how you derive them form what you assume.

Dear Bruno,

`I will differ to David Chalmers work to demonstrate a thorough`

`demolition of materialism. I see numbers are an aspect of mental content`

`and not independently existing entities, so we have an irreconcilable`

`difference in our thinking.`

It seems to me that the physical activity of counting is the sourceof derivation of arithmetics!But you have to derive the physical activity first, then.

`I no longer see the utility of trying to prove the existence of the`

`content of 1p experience. I experience it and can bet that you do as`

`well. That is my theory of a physical world and its activity in a nutshell.`

Of cource we cannot just consider the activity of a single entity butthat of many entities, each counting in their own ways and developingcommunication methods between themselves.Materialism fails since it cannot explain how it is possible formaterial things to have representations of things, intensionality,such as numbers.yes, even weak materialism. But your point is not valid, unless youprove it first.

What benefit comes from this "proof"?

Numbers fail, as a ground of ontology, as they can not transformthemselves and remain the same. Matter is exactly that which cantransform and remain the same!? (looks like a prose to me).

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