On 4/4/2013 8:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 04 Apr 2013, at 15:47, Craig Weinberg wrote:
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-03-memories-death-real-reality.html
"Working together, researchers at the Coma Science Group (Directed by Steven Laureys)
and the University of Liège's Cognitive Psychology Research (Professor Serge Brédart
and Hedwige Dehon), have looked into the memories of NDE with the hypothesis that if
the memories of NDE were pure products of the imagination, their phenomenological
characteristics (e.g., sensorial, self referential, emotional, etc. details) should be
closer to those of imagined memories. Conversely, if the NDE are experienced in a way
similar to that of reality, their characteristics would be closer to the memories of
real events.
The researchers compared the responses provided by three groups of patients, each of
which had survived (in a different manner) a coma, and a group of healthy volunteers.
They studied the memories of NDE and the memories of real events and imagined events
with the help of a questionnaire which evaluated the phenomenological characteristics
of the memories. The results were surprising. From the perspective being studied, not
only were the NDEs not similar to the memories of imagined events, but the
phenomenological characteristics inherent to the memories of real events (e.g. memories
of sensorial details) are even more numerous in the memories of NDE than in the
memories of real events."
These results fully support a sense based model of physics. It makes a falsifiable
claim that if NDEs are dreams, then they should be like all other dreams. While this
could still mean that being close to death gives you massively potent dream for some
reason, it still points to a universe where realism, matter, and public events are
derived from a universal foundation which is sensory rather than logical.
With comp, we already know that the physical is a construct of the mind (of the
universal numbers), so your point here is precisely not valid. Indeed you seem to need
some primary matter to distinguish the "sensory" based on carbon from the one which we
could be based on silicon, or numbers.
Reality is the dream of eternity made temporarily public, not a collection of objects
making temporary illusions.
The self-referentially correct universal machine agrees with this. 100%. It is not
obvious at all, but that's what the UDA explains.
On this you are more correct than many materialist, but you fit perfectly well with
comp. That is why I find a bit sad that you insist that comp is false. Keep in mind
that, unlike what many are thinking, comp is incompatible with even very weak form of
materialism. So much that physics should be entirely derivable from the global FPI on
arithmetic. The math confirms this up to now, if we agree with some rather standard
definition in the theory of knowledge.
It would be interesting to see if some drug does not also produce more of the
phenomenological characteristics inherent to the memories of real events. Now, I have
not read those papers, and as you notice, it might only be more "potent dream".
Dreams are not "pure products of imagination", and nobody has ever suggested they were.
The researchers compared NDE reports to memories of real and imagined events, not dreams.
But what does "memory of an imagined event" mean? It means the researchers asked the
subjects to imagine remembering something that didn't happen. They discovered that this
did not have as much sensory detail as the memories of real events and NDEs. Dog bites man.
Brent
In fact, from the usual work on dreams, by Jouvet, LaBerge, Dement and Hobson, for
example, what is striking, is the remarkable similarity of the REM brain states and the
awake brain states, for diverse tasks (computing, singing, walking, moving arms, seeing
color, etc.).
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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