On 04 Apr 2013, at 18:11, meekerdb wrote:
On 4/4/2013 8:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 04 Apr 2013, at 15:47, Craig Weinberg wrote:
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-03-memories-death-real-reality.html
"Working together, researchers at the Coma Science Group (Directed
by Steven Laureys) and the University of Liège's Cognitive
Psychology Research (Professor Serge Brédart and Hedwige Dehon),
have looked into the memories of NDE with the hypothesis that if
the memories of NDE were pure products of the imagination, their
phenomenological characteristics (e.g., sensorial, self
referential, emotional, etc. details) should be closer to those of
imagined memories. Conversely, if the NDE are experienced in a way
similar to that of reality, their characteristics would be closer
to the memories of real events.
The researchers compared the responses provided by three groups of
patients, each of which had survived (in a different manner) a
coma, and a group of healthy volunteers. They studied the memories
of NDE and the memories of real events and imagined events with
the help of a questionnaire which evaluated the phenomenological
characteristics of the memories. The results were surprising. From
the perspective being studied, not only were the NDEs not similar
to the memories of imagined events, but the phenomenological
characteristics inherent to the memories of real events (e.g.
memories of sensorial details) are even more numerous in the
memories of NDE than in the memories of real events."
These results fully support a sense based model of physics. It
makes a falsifiable claim that if NDEs are dreams, then they
should be like all other dreams. While this could still mean that
being close to death gives you massively potent dream for some
reason, it still points to a universe where realism, matter, and
public events are derived from a universal foundation which is
sensory rather than logical.
With comp, we already know that the physical is a construct of the
mind (of the universal numbers), so your point here is precisely
not valid. Indeed you seem to need some primary matter to
distinguish the "sensory" based on carbon from the one which we
could be based on silicon, or numbers.
Reality is the dream of eternity made temporarily public, not a
collection of objects making temporary illusions.
The self-referentially correct universal machine agrees with this.
100%. It is not obvious at all, but that's what the UDA explains.
On this you are more correct than many materialist, but you fit
perfectly well with comp. That is why I find a bit sad that you
insist that comp is false. Keep in mind that, unlike what many are
thinking, comp is incompatible with even very weak form of
materialism. So much that physics should be entirely derivable from
the global FPI on arithmetic. The math confirms this up to now, if
we agree with some rather standard definition in the theory of
knowledge.
It would be interesting to see if some drug does not also produce
more of the phenomenological characteristics inherent to the
memories of real events. Now, I have not read those papers, and as
you notice, it might only be more "potent dream".
Dreams are not "pure products of imagination", and nobody has ever
suggested they were. The researchers compared NDE reports to
memories of real and imagined events, not dreams.
OK. I missed that. It makes no more much sense.
But what does "memory of an imagined event" mean? It means the
researchers asked the subjects to imagine remembering something that
didn't happen. They discovered that this did not have as much
sensory detail as the memories of real events and NDEs. Dog bites
man.
OK.
Bruno
Brent
In fact, from the usual work on dreams, by Jouvet, LaBerge, Dement
and Hobson, for example, what is striking, is the remarkable
similarity of the REM brain states and the awake brain states, for
diverse tasks (computing, singing, walking, moving arms, seeing
color, etc.).
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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