On 04 Apr 2013, at 18:11, meekerdb wrote:

On 4/4/2013 8:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 04 Apr 2013, at 15:47, Craig Weinberg wrote:

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-03-memories-death-real-reality.html

"Working together, researchers at the Coma Science Group (Directed by Steven Laureys) and the University of Liège's Cognitive Psychology Research (Professor Serge Brédart and Hedwige Dehon), have looked into the memories of NDE with the hypothesis that if the memories of NDE were pure products of the imagination, their phenomenological characteristics (e.g., sensorial, self referential, emotional, etc. details) should be closer to those of imagined memories. Conversely, if the NDE are experienced in a way similar to that of reality, their characteristics would be closer to the memories of real events.

The researchers compared the responses provided by three groups of patients, each of which had survived (in a different manner) a coma, and a group of healthy volunteers. They studied the memories of NDE and the memories of real events and imagined events with the help of a questionnaire which evaluated the phenomenological characteristics of the memories. The results were surprising. From the perspective being studied, not only were the NDEs not similar to the memories of imagined events, but the phenomenological characteristics inherent to the memories of real events (e.g. memories of sensorial details) are even more numerous in the memories of NDE than in the memories of real events."

These results fully support a sense based model of physics. It makes a falsifiable claim that if NDEs are dreams, then they should be like all other dreams. While this could still mean that being close to death gives you massively potent dream for some reason, it still points to a universe where realism, matter, and public events are derived from a universal foundation which is sensory rather than logical.

With comp, we already know that the physical is a construct of the mind (of the universal numbers), so your point here is precisely not valid. Indeed you seem to need some primary matter to distinguish the "sensory" based on carbon from the one which we could be based on silicon, or numbers.






Reality is the dream of eternity made temporarily public, not a collection of objects making temporary illusions.

The self-referentially correct universal machine agrees with this. 100%. It is not obvious at all, but that's what the UDA explains.

On this you are more correct than many materialist, but you fit perfectly well with comp. That is why I find a bit sad that you insist that comp is false. Keep in mind that, unlike what many are thinking, comp is incompatible with even very weak form of materialism. So much that physics should be entirely derivable from the global FPI on arithmetic. The math confirms this up to now, if we agree with some rather standard definition in the theory of knowledge.

It would be interesting to see if some drug does not also produce more of the phenomenological characteristics inherent to the memories of real events. Now, I have not read those papers, and as you notice, it might only be more "potent dream".


Dreams are not "pure products of imagination", and nobody has ever suggested they were. The researchers compared NDE reports to memories of real and imagined events, not dreams.

OK. I missed that. It makes no more much sense.




But what does "memory of an imagined event" mean? It means the researchers asked the subjects to imagine remembering something that didn't happen. They discovered that this did not have as much sensory detail as the memories of real events and NDEs. Dog bites man.

OK.

Bruno




Brent


In fact, from the usual work on dreams, by Jouvet, LaBerge, Dement and Hobson, for example, what is striking, is the remarkable similarity of the REM brain states and the awake brain states, for diverse tasks (computing, singing, walking, moving arms, seeing color, etc.).


Bruno



http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/




--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en .
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


Reply via email to