On Thursday, April 4, 2013 12:11:36 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: > > On 4/4/2013 8:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > > On 04 Apr 2013, at 15:47, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > >> http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-03-memories-death-real-reality.html > >> > >> "Working together, researchers at the Coma Science Group (Directed by > Steven Laureys) > >> and the University of Li�ge's Cognitive Psychology Research > (Professor Serge Br�dart > >> and Hedwige Dehon), have looked into the memories of NDE with the > hypothesis that if > >> the memories of NDE were pure products of the imagination, their > phenomenological > >> characteristics (e.g., sensorial, self referential, emotional, etc. > details) should be > >> closer to those of imagined memories. Conversely, if the NDE are > experienced in a way > >> similar to that of reality, their characteristics would be closer to > the memories of > >> real events. > >> > >> The researchers compared the responses provided by three groups of > patients, each of > >> which had survived (in a different manner) a coma, and a group of > healthy volunteers. > >> They studied the memories of NDE and the memories of real events and > imagined events > >> with the help of a questionnaire which evaluated the phenomenological > characteristics > >> of the memories. The results were surprising. From the perspective > being studied, not > >> only were the NDEs not similar to the memories of imagined events, but > the > >> phenomenological characteristics inherent to the memories of real > events (e.g. memories > >> of sensorial details) are even more numerous in the memories of NDE > than in the > >> memories of real events." > >> > >> These results fully support a sense based model of physics. It makes a > falsifiable > >> claim that if NDEs are dreams, then they should be like all other > dreams. While this > >> could still mean that being close to death gives you massively potent > dream for some > >> reason, it still points to a universe where realism, matter, and public > events are > >> derived from a universal foundation which is sensory rather than > logical. > > > > With comp, we already know that the physical is a construct of the mind > (of the > > universal numbers), so your point here is precisely not valid. Indeed > you seem to need > > some primary matter to distinguish the "sensory" based on carbon from > the one which we > > could be based on silicon, or numbers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Reality is the dream of eternity made temporarily public, not a > collection of objects > >> making temporary illusions. > > > > The self-referentially correct universal machine agrees with this. 100%. > It is not > > obvious at all, but that's what the UDA explains. > > > > On this you are more correct than many materialist, but you fit > perfectly well with > > comp. That is why I find a bit sad that you insist that comp is false. > Keep in mind > > that, unlike what many are thinking, comp is incompatible with even very > weak form of > > materialism. So much that physics should be entirely derivable from the > global FPI on > > arithmetic. The math confirms this up to now, if we agree with some > rather standard > > definition in the theory of knowledge. > > > > It would be interesting to see if some drug does not also produce more > of the > > phenomenological characteristics inherent to the memories of real > events. Now, I have > > not read those papers, and as you notice, it might only be more "potent > dream". > > > Dreams are not "pure products of imagination", and nobody has ever > suggested they were. > The researchers compared NDE reports to memories of real and imagined > events, not dreams. > But what does "memory of an imagined event" mean? It means the > researchers asked the > subjects to imagine remembering something that didn't happen. They > discovered that this > did not have as much sensory detail as the memories of real events and > NDEs. Dog bites man. >
But the memories of the NDEs are clearer than the real events. Common sense tells us that memories of imagined events or dreams would be less detailed. Craig > > Brent > > > > > In fact, from the usual work on dreams, by Jouvet, LaBerge, Dement and > Hobson, for > > example, what is striking, is the remarkable similarity of the REM brain > states and the > > awake brain states, for diverse tasks (computing, singing, walking, > moving arms, seeing > > color, etc.). > > > > > > Bruno > > > > > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
