After some million years of 'mental' development this animal arrived at the 'mental' fear. Usurpers exploited it by creating superpowers to target it with assigned intent to help, or destroy. The details were subject to the 'founders' benefit of enslaving the rest of the people into their rule. Such unquestionable tyranny lasted over the past millennia and it takes a long, hard, dangerous work to get out of it. The USA Constitution (18th c.) stepped ahead in SOME little political and economical ways, yet only a tiny little in liberating the people from the religious slavery: a so called 'separation' of state and church (not clearly identified to this day). Th French revolution similarly targetted the religion, yet today - after numerous vocal enlightened minds - the country is still divided between Christian and Islamic fundamentalist trends. In my view an 'atheist requires a god to disbelieve (deny?). Matter is figmentous and the 'origins' are beyond our reach. Physical is a level of human development and there is infinite unknown - unknowable - we don't even guess. Just musing John M
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > On 08 Jul 2013, at 19:53, meekerdb wrote: > > On 7/8/2013 1:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> >>> On 08 Jul 2013, at 02:45, meekerdb wrote: >>> >>> On 7/7/2013 6:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 07 Jul 2013, at 07:28, meekerdb wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.salon.com/2013/07/**06/god_is_not_great_** >>>>>> christopher_hitchens_is_not_a_**liar/<http://www.salon.com/2013/07/06/god_is_not_great_christopher_hitchens_is_not_a_liar/> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I love Christopher Hitchens. I agree with many points. He is more an >>>>> anticlerical than an atheist to me ... >>>>> >>>> >>>> Everybody called him an atheist. He called himself an atheist. I think >>>> you just don't like the term. >>>> >>> >>> "atheism" is different in America and in Europa, although I have >>> realized now that some atheists in America might be similar, but not >>> Hitchens. Many people confuse agnosticism and atheism. Some atheists >>> maintains the confusion to hide that they are believers (in "matter" and in >>> the non existence of God). >>> >> >> I don't know any atheists who are shy about their belief that matter >> exists and God doesn't. >> > > That is the problem. > > > > > >> Many people, and dictionaries, confuse agnosticism="that whether or not >> God exists is unknown" >> > > That's the usual mundane sense of the word. > > > > > with agnosticism="that whether or not God exists is impossible to know". >> > > That's a technical view by some philosophers. > > > > > I agree with Sam Harris that "atheist" is not a very useful appellation >> because it only describes someone in contrast to "theist". It just means >> they fail to believe in a God who is a person and whose approval one should >> seek. >> > > Pebbles and chimpanzees fails too, but are not atheists in any reasonable > sense. Most vindicative atheists really believe that god does not exist, > and then they believe in a primitively material universe, even a Boolean > one (without being aware of this in particular). > > Also, many religions and theologies have other notion of Gods. > > > > > As Harris points out we don't invent words like awarmist to describe one >> who fails to believe there is global warming or anummerist to describe >> someone who's not sure about the existence of numbers. >> > > Yes. I heard a catholic bishop, taking about a book written by a Belgian > atheist, saying that the atheists are "our allies", "they keep advertising > for us and (our) God" Then, at least around here, "Matter" is such a dogma > that you can get problem when you dare to doubt it, "apparently" --- > because they don't practice dialog, and ignore the embarrassing questions. > > They don't practice science in the matter. For them you are just mad if > you doubt ... basically the same theology of matter than the christians. > Greek theology is allowed to be studied by historians, not by > mathematicians. The atheists I know fight more the agnostic (in the mundane > sense) than the radicals of any religion. Political correctness makes easy > to defend 2+2=5, and impossible to defend 2+2=4. > > We are all believers, and when a machine pretend to be a non believer, it > means "I know", and she will impose her religion to you, by all means. > > Bruno > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~**marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/> > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to > everything-list+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > . > To post to this group, send email to > everything-list@googlegroups.**com<firstname.lastname@example.org> > . > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/**group/everything-list<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list> > . > For more options, visit > https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> > . > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.