On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com>wrote:

>I was wondering if there is any evidence baked into the DNA so to speak;
> in other words are there any areas of coding DNA that are known to be (or
> perhaps suspected of being)  linked to and involved with such behavioral
> traits as herding instinct etc.
>

In 1959 a breeding program was started with foxes, one group was bred for
aggregation the other group for tameness. Today the aggressive foxes are so
dangerous a human dare not even approach them, but the tame foxes not only
behave like dogs remarkably they've even started to look like dogs, and
people looking at photos of the 2 groups almost universally regard the tame
group as looking cuter than the aggressive breed.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/350422/description/Tamed_fox_shows_domestications_effects_on_the_brain


  John K Clark





> that have been shown to have evolved in dogs (or more accurately been bred
> into dogs by human directed breeding for desired traits).
>




>
> I would not be surprised at all to find that there were, and feel pretty
> certain that a delta mapping of wolf DNA and say a Sheep Collies DNA will
> show changes in the key sets of genes that would be implicated in these
> behaviors... that is if we know what they are.
>
> Mapping behaviors to genes gets tricky because things as complex as a
> behavior, such as the instinct to herd sheep, probably draws upon multiple
> DNA coding sequences located in possibly different genes even. I don't
> think geneticists really have nailed down how instincts are wired into our
> genetic heredity -- we have statistical correlations and such, but -
> perhaps it is my own ignorance, but no clear story as to how these
> genetically encoded behavior genes actually work -- end to end.
>
> While, for example some Newspaper headline may boldly state that
> scientists have found the "gene" for aggression say, a deeper read will
> reveal that what was found was some DNA that may influence whether or not
> an individual becomes aggressive, for example, but that whether they
> actually do or not also depends on a lot of other co-factors, making it
> hard to determine what the trigger chain of events and changes actually is
> in reality. Very often, it turns out there is an environmental component in
> how behavioral traits arise in an individual as well.
>
> The interplay between hereditary information and the many dynamic
> processes at work in the organism at each phase: from the transcription
> phase that ultimately results in mRNA strands becoming used as a template
> in the ribosome to produce amino acid chains is still too poorly
> understood -- IMO -- for assertive statements.
>
> We hypothesize the genetic component in many behaviors; have found regions
> of DNA that are implicated in controlling behavior, but the science is
> still underdeveloped, the genetic maps we have at our disposal far too
> course and incomplete and our understanding of the many dynamic processes
> at work still incomplete.
>
> But -- [laughing] -- maybe I just need to catch up... it is such a rapidly
> moving field.
>
> -Chris
>    *From:* meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
> *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com
> *Sent:* Monday, August 12, 2013 11:56 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong
>
>  On 8/12/2013 9:41 AM, Chris de Morsella wrote:
>
> What co-evolutionary traits have been shown to have occurred in dogs and
> cattle because of their association with humans (so which are therefore
> part of the equation)?
>
>
> Dogs are just wolves that, thru (un)natural selection have evolved to bond
> with humans as with a pack.  Cattle similarly evolved to be docile and
> tolerant of humans.
>
>  For example with sheep – is sheep dog behavior evolved? Or are they
> expressing genetic potential that was already innate in their species? That
> would also be an interesting example, if it can be shown that an evolved
> set of behaviors (e.g. instincts) developed in those dog species that were
> bred for working with cattle or sheep that is absent in other dog species
> that there are epigenetic and/or DNA encoding differences that are related
> to and underpin the behaviors and traits being observed.
>
>
> Wolves herd sheep too, so there was innate potential.  But dogs can also
> learn a lot of words.  I don't know whether wolves can or not.  That might
> be an evolved capability.
>
> Brent
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