A rapid descent into extremism can be caused by factors such as economic desperation. However, you can also have a gradual change in society and then people are always indioctrinated that their current norms and values are correct. So, there was a time when when drawing and quartering was a normal form of punishment, and we gradually moved away from that. If you move very fast away from this, then there will be big differences in the opnions of people about wthe current system being ok. or totally unacceptable.

We are thus more vulnerable to extremism due to gradual changes in society, e.g. a Hitler coming to power who doesn't need to start a war (suppose e.g. that Poland would ahve been annexed without the Western powers declaring war on Germany). So, Hitler could have remained a popular dictator in Germany and the Holocaust would have had a competely different character.

From the point of view of an extremist, the extremists views are the norm. So, the extremist doesn't see that he is an extremist. It is only in case of a rapid descent into extremism that there will be many other peole who are not extremist who can see this, also the extremists would find them having to defend their views more.

You an then also ask if we are actually already extremists from some reasonable point of view that our distant descendants may have. E.g. the way we run the World economy with billions of people living in poverty could be called totally immoral by people who live a century from now. They could judge us in a similar way as the would judge Nazis.

Or, as in a recent SF movie, you can have an alien visiting us who then judges us to be guilty of mass genocide against the environment and who then decides that we should all be exterminated so that life on Earth can be saved from us.

If in one reasonable value system something can be genocide on an unimaginable scale, while in another one it is business as usual, then the processes that led to this being flagged as "business as usual" in our brains have their origin in arbitrary events in our history, as there is no preference for the flagging as "business as usual" being preferred given the way our brain works.


Saibal


Citeren Pierz <pier...@gmail.com>:

"...since first of all the additional happiness in those non-WW3
branches..." What I mean of course is the additional happiness in the WW3
branches. The non-WW3 branches are much *less* happy right Saibal?

On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:49:59 AM UTC+10, Pierz wrote:

Self-contradictory. You've got to follow your own theories to their
logical conclusions. *Which* Western/third world would have been better off
if WW3 hadn't happened? Since "everything happens" in some branch of the
multiverse, surely there are innumerable branches in which the world is
better off for not having undergone the horrors of WW3. Or are you saying
that, if you summed human happiness in the branches of the hypothetical
branch of the multiverse in which WW3 didn't happen, and compared it to the
sum of human happiness in the branches in which it did, it would be higher
in the ones in which it didn't? Put that way, it becomes a rather absurd
claim wouldn't you say? And dubious - since first of all the additional
happiness in those non-WW3 branches has to make up for the staggering,
unimaginable misery of the holocaust, the Russian front, Hiroshima etc etc
before "getting ahead" at all, and secondly because this is all based on
the theory that Nazism not being "debunked" (It was exterminated) would
have led to an incorporation of fascist ideology into the mainstream of
global social organization, an extremely debatable proposition. Extremism
is fostered by economic desperation. If the world had had time to fully
recover from the depression, notions of invading the world would have
looked a lot less attractive to the fat, comfortable citizens of an
affluent western Europe, and Nazism may well have died a quiet death
without the need for apocalypse. But of course I won't argue that's what
*would* have happened, because making predictions about the consequences of
any single event or change in world history is impossible. If you'd like to
disagree, please tell us all what the consequences of the Arab uprisings
will be in twenty years' time. We'll check back in then and see how well
you performed.

On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:56:57 AM UTC+10, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote:

Roger may start a discussion on politics and presents some very narrow
minded views, but I can present a different view that may be totally
politically incorect but is i.m.o. the right view.

Not only is the 3rd World better off with WWII having happened, the
Western World is also better off. Without WWII, Nazism would not have
been debunked and we would gradually have evolved to become less free
societies. Ideas that are totally politically incorrect like
euthanizing old and handicap people to save health care costs would
have been business as usual.

The fundamental mistake Roger makes is to think that the core moral
values we have today are universal and that you can look back many
decades and then condemn e.g. the Muslim Brotherhood for having
supported the Nazis back then.

In the end, Roger's brain is just executing a prgram, whatever is
against his moral values is encoded in his brain and that information
did not come out of thin air. Had history run a different course (and
history has run a different course in different sectors of the
multiverse), Roger would have supported Nazi policies himself. In fact
we can be sure that such a Nazi version of Roger exsts in the
multiverse, because all possible programs exists.

Saibal


Citeren spudb...@aol.com:

> I do not see why Roger, needs, politics in this forum, but, so be it.
> Smitra expresses a view that decides the US, has to be ruined for the
> evil it has conspired against the wonderful, and innocent, people's
> of the 3rd world. I am guessing that when the ISI strikes India,
> using enhanced fission devices, he will be content that they detonate
> it only on legitimate military targets? Enjoy.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: smitra <smi...@zonnet.nl>
> To: everything-list <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:13 am
> Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
>
>
> Also I believe that 9/11 was a good thing, albeit it would have been
> etter if Bin Laden had focusses only on legitimate military targets
> ike the White House, the US Congress, the Senate and the Pentagon.
>
> iteren Roger Clough <rcl...@verizon.net>:
>>
> The Nazi history of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jk4a3Kk6-Y
>
> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
> See my Leibniz site at
> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
>
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