On Mon, Sep 16, 2013  Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>>  So you are suggesting that a thing like broken glass is made of numbers
>>
>
> > ???? I was just saying that things are not made up of things. A broken
> glass is NOT made of number. That has no meaning at all. What happens is
> that addition and multiplication of natural numbers emulate dreams, which
> might be dream of a broken glass.
>

OK. How is that any different from saying broken glass is made of numbers?

>> don't tell me there is no such thing as a thing, that's just more
>> gibberish.
>>
>
> > It is a matter of tedious, and not so simple, exercise to see that the
> computations exist in some definite sense when we postulate arithmetic.
> (This is done in good textbook, and very well done in Epstein & Carnielli,
> but also in Boolos & Jeffrey). Physical things then appears as stable
> percept
>

And concerning broken glass I said in my September 11 post "It must have
stable properties of some sort or I wouldn't be able to identify it as a
thing".


> > by persons living those dreams.
>

OK. Therefore the physical universe and the physical things in it exist.

>>  Make up your mind! First you say everything is the process of "natural
>> numbers" in "relative computations" and then you say "digital machines,
>> which are defined in term of number relations" are an exception to this
>> because what they do "is not a process". The sum of number relations is not
>> a process?? None of this makes any sense to me.
>>
>
> > Some number relation defines some machines, or some programs, which are
> static entities.
> *Other number relations, involving the preceding one, defines
> computations, or processes,
>

Name a number relation that does not involve a computation or some other
process!

> A machine, in that setting is basically one number, relative to some
> universal number.
>

Relative? A relation needs at least 2 things, and  some sort of computation
with them.

  John K Clark

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