I have a profound respect to Dawkins, but why should I believe him?
Why would you restrict the 'genes' to those (physical worldly -
conventional scientific) measurements that show a 'match' to the 'parents'
similarly superficially mapped genes? All 'networks' go infinite with
branching further and further into more and more aspects (the "genes" not
exempted) - it is a likely (human?) vision of the infinite complexity we
have only a small glimpse of.
Your distinction: can something "be alive" without life? Then my question
stands. Could you describe 'being alive' without the concept of 'life'?
"Mules don't constitute life" - no, mules constitute animals - a transition
between a horse and an ass. Both rife with life - except for the progeny?
JM


On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 2:57 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

>  On 9/23/2013 11:49 AM, John Mikes wrote:
>
> Brent - REPRODUCTION???? - in our 'biology' there is only one strain that
> reproduces: the prokaryotes by mitosis. In most(?) heterosex procreation
> you take TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES and by combining some products of them you
> CREATE a third one, not identical to any of the "procreating" parents.
> Biologist friends were surprised, but finally agreed.
>
>
> Dawkins would point out that it's genes that get reproduced.
>
>
>   There was ONE smartAlec who changed my topic to 'reproduction of the
> SPECIES' - which is fine, as long as we know much enough of the details of
> that 'specie' - what we usually don't. (Cf: drug-resistence of microbes).
> "For an alien all humans are identical, even many animal kinds included."
> I would not deny the Robert Rosen characteristics-cryterion: his  M & R
>  the Metabolism and Repair. I don't find it a definitive description, but
> in most cases it works fine as "main" attribute.
> Reproduction? no way. A mule is alive.
>
>
> Did you miss that I was making a distinction between 'life' (as in 'Is
> there life on Mars?') and 'being alive'.  Sure a mule is alive.  But mules
> don't constitute life.
>
> Brent
>
>
>  JohnM
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, September 23, 2013 12:45:00 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For 'life', in contrast to 'being alive', I'd add reproduction. That's
>>> the real defining
>>> characteristic of life.
>>>
>>
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