On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 6:37 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 11/19/2013 1:09 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 8:39 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 11/18/2013 9:44 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>
>>> You seem to be arguing against a straw man here.  I explained why the
>>> free
>>> market can't fix the tragedy of the commons. You haven't answered my
>>> point.
>>>
>>>
>>> And he's so concerned with anti-government straw men that he hasn't
>>> noticed
>>> that a market requires government (including coercion) to define
>>> ownership
>>> and punish fraud.  Without government you couldn't own any more stuff
>>> than
>>> you could carry and defend by force of arms.
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree with Brent. Government can be the best thing a democracy can
>>> have,
>>> ... until bandits get power and perverts the elections and the state
>>> power
>>> separations (and get important control on the media, etc.).
>>>
>>> But we should make clear that a government has nothing to say about your
>>> food, medications, sports, religious or sexual practices, etc. As long as
>>> there are no well-motivated complains, the state can't intervene.
>>>
>>>
>>> So you think it's a bad idea for the government to require testing
>>> medications for safety.
>>
>> The problem is always the same, the government has no incentive to
>> protect you, but a lot of incentive to protect lucrative businesses.
>
>
> You mean the giant Ritalin industry?

Yes. I would say you think too much in terms of political categories.
I'm not a big business apologist. I like honest businesses that
provide value to society, independently of their size. I do not like
businesses that use their money to distort the truth and buy political
power.

>
>> Crazy stuff is not only allowed but actually encouraged, like giving a
>> powerful nervous system stimulant to kids whose brains are still
>> developing, with little research on the long-term effects.
>
>
> My son was prescribed ritalin in high school and it helped him a lot.  And
> his problem was not that he was bored.  I don't know why you think there is
> "little research on long-term effects"?  What's the research on the long
> term effects of HPV vaccines?  Michelle Bachman thinks they cause mental
> retardation - based on one anecdote.

I'm glad that it helped your son, and I'm being totally honest here.
What I claim is that ritalin would easily be considered a hard drug if
people were using it in a way that does not proved profits to some
monopoly. These are the same guy who are lobbying against cannabis
legalisation while developing THC based medication, this should tell
you something. Also, there is now some evidence that Ketamine could be
used to cure severe depression and that DMT could be used to cure
addictions, but this research is not being allowed.

But still concerning ritalin: don't you find it weird that it is
unheard of in other developed countries? Some of these countries even
have better education scores than the US. It feels a bit like soma:
you prescribe it so that people can tolerate school and society,
instead of trying to find out what's wrong with school and society. I
don't claim that it can't be useful in some cases, and I believe you
if you tell me that your son is one of them.

>
>> This drug
>> is prescribed, by the way, because kids are bored in school. What a
>> shocker, must be a disease. Ritalin makes the kids more compliant and
>> productive. A bit creepy if you think about it, no?
>>
>> Meanwhile paracetamol is mixed with other drugs like pain-killers and
>> opiates, so that people that abuse them get sick in horrible ways.
>>
>>> You liked the old "patent medicine" system better?
>>> You don't like the government requiring food labels with contents?  How
>>> about airline safety requlations; why not just let the customers decide
>>> based on reputation (that's what libertarians want)?
>>
>> You talk as if there are only these two options. I also prefer to buy
>> food that comes with a label of contents. Apparently, both you and me
>> would prefer products with such labels. So there's a market for it,
>> right? Then certification: private certification companies would have
>> less incentives to lie, because once they are caught lying they lose
>> our trust and consequently their business.
>
>
> And you think this company is going to do long-term research?  How are they
> going to be "caught lying" based on statistics from 20yrs after the fact?
> What would they have said about alar on apples?
>
>
>> In the current model, they
>> are caught lying but nobody can show up and compete on better
>> certification.
>
>
> Sure they can.  There's nothing to stop you from starting a rating system
> for drugs and selling it to consumers and doctors.  Nothing except you don't
> have the money or time to do the research and the only people who might fund
> it are the pharmaceutical companies.
>
>
> Brent
>
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