God, to me, means an All-Powerful, Able to Do All, deity. That is my belief. What I'm saying is that I do not have an answer to the question you pose, and if I try, I'll simply be speculating about what I really do not know or have a way of knowing. There may be a very good explanation for this contradiction, I do not know.
Samiya On 03-Dec-2013, at 12:48 AM, Jesse Mazer <[email protected]> wrote: > but priginally you responded to my comment about God and logic by saying > "This is strange! What 'theism' it is if it limits God?" which I took to mean > you were expressing a definite disagreement with the idea that God was > "limited" to acts consistent with the laws of logic. Did I misunderstand, and > you actually did not mean to suggest any speculations about whether God can > change the laws of logic? > > On Monday, December 2, 2013, Samiya Illias wrote: >> No, I just do not want to speculate about something I really have not given >> much thought to or can contribute by 'thinking' on it. The little that I've >> read of philosophers and theologians, discourages me as they only seem to go >> round and round in their efforts to make sense of it. >> >> Samiya >> >> On 03-Dec-2013, at 12:28 AM, Jesse Mazer <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> But you do make the definite claim that God can change the laws of logic, >>> which would include the power to get rid of the law of noncontradiction, >>> no? Or has this discussion made you less certain about whether this would >>> be within God's power or not? >>> >>> On Monday, December 2, 2013, Samiya Illias wrote: >>> You explained it yourself: ' >>>> so of course it is impossible for us to imagine what it might mean, '. >>> Trying to answer it would be just pretending to be 'all-wise' and >>> consequently making a fool of myself :) >>> >>> Samiya >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 02-Dec-2013, at 10:13 PM, Jesse Mazer <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> The first question involves a logical contradiction--the statement "God is >>>> perfect" being simultaneously true and false--so of course it is >>>> impossible for us to imagine what it might mean, and since I think the >>>> laws of logic are unchangeable I think it's a completely meaningless >>>> description. But if you believe God can change the laws of logic, you >>>> should believe God can change the logical rule known as the "law of >>>> noncontradiction" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_noncontradiction ) >>>> which says a proposition cannot be both true and false. >>>> >>>> On Monday, December 2, 2013, Samiya Illias wrote: >>>> I agree that perfect knowledge and command of logic and math and et al are >>>> necessary attributes of God. >>>> When I say God is consistent, I mean that God is so perfect in His plan >>>> that He doesn't even have any need to change His decree or methods. >>>> However, God reserves the power and the right to do what He wills, when He >>>> wills, and that may appear imperfect to us mortals within our limited >>>> senses and knowledge. >>>> However, Jesse, I won't try to answer the following questions, as that >>>> would be pure speculation. I'm not even sure if I understand the first >>>> question properly. >>>> >>>> Samiya >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 02-Dec-2013, at 6:38 PM, Jesse Mazer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> But consistency is itself a logical notion. If you think God can change >>>>> the laws of logic, can God make it so that he is both perfect and >>>>> not-perfect, with "perfect" having exactly the same meaning in both >>>>> cases? >>>>> >>>>> Note that believing God cannot change logic need not imply logic is >>>>> "independent" of God for theists, they may say that logic is grounded in >>>>> God's eternal "understanding", to use the same word as Leibniz. So >>>>> perfect understanding of logic and math can be seen as necessary >>>>> attributes of God, along with other more specifically theistic attributes >>>>> like perfection, omnipotence, omniscience etc. Do you believe that God >>>>> has necessary attributes that God cannot change, so for example God >>>>> cannot make a new being more powerful than Himself since this would >>>>> violate omnipotence? >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, December 2, 2013, Samiya Illias wrote: >>>>> I agree that God is consistent. In my understanding, God is perfect in >>>>> every possible meaning of the word. >>>>> I was objecting to the assertion below that 'Most theistic philosophers >>>>> and theologians who have considered the issue agree that God did not >>>>> create the laws of math and logic, and does not have the power to alter >>>>> them (or any other "necessary" truths, ...' >>>>> >>>>> Samiya >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On 02-Dec-2013, at 3:01 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 02 Dec 2013, at 06:11, Samiya Illias wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> This is strange! What 'theism' it is if it limits God? >>>>>> >>>>>> Making It consistent is not really limiting it. >>>>>> Accepting the idea that God can be inconsistent quickly leads to >>>>>> inconsistent theology, which is the fuel of atheism. >>>>>> (that is why atheists defends all the time the most inconsistent notion >>>>>> of God, and deter people to search by themselves in the field). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> We believe that God is the Reality, the Prime Originator, the >>>>>>> Sustainer, and the Final Goal. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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