On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:00 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

>  On 12/10/2013 1:22 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>          I think I was attempting to position myself between John and
>>> Jason - to say that determinism is reasonably well established, but only as
>>> a result of a long and winding process of experiment, conjecture and so on.
>>>  But it isn't.  As Roland Omnes says, quantum mechanics is a
>>> probabilistic theory so it predicts probabilities - what did you expect?
>>> Among apostles of Everett there's a lot of trashing of Copenhagen.  But
>>> Bohr's idea was that the classical world, where things happened and results
>>> were recorded, was *logically* prior to the quantum mechanics.  QM was a
>>> way of making predictions about what could done and observed.  Today what
>>> might be termed neo-Copenhagen is advocated by Chris Fuchs and maybe Scott
>>> Aronson.  I highly recommend Scott's book "Quantum Computing Since
>>> Democritus".  It's kind of heavy going in the middle, but if you're just
>>> interested in the philosophical implications you can skip to the last
>>> chapters.  Violation of Bell's inequality can be used to guarantee the
>>> randomness of numbers, http://arxiv.org/pdf/0911.3427v3.pdf, assuming
>>> only locality.
>>  Bell's theorm proves that local hidden variables are impossible which
>> leaves only two remaining explanations that explain the EPR paradox:
>>  1. Non-local, faster-than-light, relativity violating effects
>> That's non-local hidden variable - which is exactly what a parallel
>> universe is.
>>  What is non local here?
>> A whole world is duplicated - including remote parts.
>  No decoherence is spread through the environment at light speed.
> But if the EPR particles are measured at spacelike intervals there are two
> light cones of decoherence spreading through the environment - BUT they are
> coherent so that only two constructively interfere.  There result only two
> worlds, instead of four.

The positron and electron already interacted.  The state of the system
isn't (e↑ + e↓) + (p↓ × p↑) it is (e↑ × p↓) + (e↓ × p↑). There is a
partitions of non-interacting, non-correlated states, for which there are
two. Interacting with either one of the electron or the positron puts you
into one a superposition of those two states.


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