Hi Jason,
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 1:20 AM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Stephen Paul King < > stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote: > >> Dear Jason, >> >> You seem to be ignoring the role of the transitory that is involved in >> the discussion here. >> > > I am not ignoring it, but showing it is unnecessary to suppose it is > fundamental rather than emergent. > How, exactly, can it be emergent? Emergence, AFAIK, always requires some process to occur to being the emergent property. Change thus cannot be emergent. Maybe it is out minds that focus so much on the invariant, misses the obvious. > > >> The fact is that we are asking questions about things we are trying to >> understand. >> > > Right, that is good. > > >> Merely stating that this is that ignores the point. >> > > Isn't that how explanations work? > > >> Where doth change emerge if it does not exist at all? >> > > It emerges in our minds, just like colors, sounds, emotions, etc. There > is a condition known as akinetopsia in which its suffers lose the ability > to experience time (at least as we do). They experience the world as a > series of static snapshots, without conception of time or motion. One woman > expressed her trouble with crossing the street, and pouring a cup of tea, > since she couldn't tell which cars were moving or stopped, and when pouring > tea it seemed frozen like a glacier. You might consider this as some > evidence that we owe our perception of change to some extra layer of > processing done by our brain. > Pushing the question back into the mind is a dodge. Where does that which drives the emergence obtain? > > >> This is my problem with Platonia, it has no explanation for the >> appearance of change. >> > > It can, if we don't require it to be fundamental and are willing to look > for explanations of it. > Please explain. All I get from the commentaries on Plato (I never learned to read Greek, sorry) is that "change is an illusion". Nevermind the persistence of that "illusion"! I have explained several times that it is a piece of cake to show how one can get the appearance of staticness from a domain of ceaseless change, just look for automorphisms, fixed point, etc. The explanation coming the other direction is obfuscation and misdirection... > > Your problem with platonia is as much a problem with special relativity, > because special relativity requires a four-dimensional existence, in which > all "nows" are equally real. > No, it does not. There is no coordinate system that can be defined that can have all planes of simultaneity mapped to it. Conformally and faithfully. Nope. That is the real point of SR, there is no absolute space nor time. SR does not freeze time, it merely gives us a map and compass to navigate our local regions. Additionally, the arguments that try to use SR and GR assume that the H.U.P. doesn't exist. Pfft, can you do better? > > Jason > > We can point at this or that (figuratively speaking) as an explanation, >> but the finger that points does not vanish upon alighting on the answer. >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 12:20 AM, Stephen Paul King < >>> stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Jason, >>>> >>>> So what is turning the "knob" on the values of y (or x)? >>>> >>> >>> Nothing, the whole graph exists at once, but y varies as x varies. Why >>> does x=1,y=9 have to be destroyed to make room for x=2,y=11? What does >>> destroying the previous state add to x=2,y=11 that wasn't there before? >>> >>> Now consider we aren't dealing with a simple line, but an equation >>> tracing the interactions of all the particle interactions in your brain. >>> If x=1 corresponds to your consciousness in time 1, and x=2 corresponds to >>> your consciousness in time 2, then how would destroying the x=1 state >>> change your conscious state for x=2? >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Stephen Paul King < >>>>> stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Brent, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have a persisting question. How is is that we can get away with >>>>>> using verbs (implying actions) when we are describing timeless entities? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> In the same way we can say that y increases as x increases, in the >>>>> graph of y = 2x + 7 >>>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/7G5zm5OFT0k/unsubscribe >>> . >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Kindest Regards, >> >> Stephen Paul King >> >> Senior Researcher >> >> Mobile: (864) 567-3099 >> >> stephe...@provensecure.com >> >> http://www.provensecure.us/ >> >> >> “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of >> the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain >> information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and >> exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as >> attorney work product. 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