John,

PS: BTW your statement *I "know" for sure that we don't know anything for 
sure." is of course an illogical and meaningless self-contradiction. It has 
no relevance to reality....*

*Edgar*



On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 4:45:20 PM UTC-5, JohnM wrote:
>
> Edgar wrote:
>
> *Terren,*
> *All human babies are automatically consciousness. They are conscious of 
> whatever input data they have. I don't see the point of your question which 
> is why I didn't answer before...*
> *Edgar*
>
>  I would risk the typo: *consciousless* instead of *your* (grammatical) 
> typo . Do you know the way a newborn 'adjusts' *input data* in its 
> starting intellect? Prof. Singer of Princeton does not trust babies minds 
> during the first 2 months of after-birth life. I don't remember, was never 
> so young. 
> In my agnosticism I compose much more into that very poorly identified 
> (and really not  AGREED-UPON) term of *Ccness* why I extended its meaning 
> beyond 'being conscious'. E.g.: while being "unconscious" (aka: cut out 
> consciousness??) -  while sleeping, you still react to an alarm clock, or a 
> glass of cold water in your face.  So I was looking for a wider territory 
> meaning and arrived at the *'response to relations'* - (no matter what 
> domain in the world-wide existence (reality???). - Awareness etc. included.
>
> Now: do not take it hard from me, if I filter your 'book' (ideas, 
> explanations?) through my many-decades long conclusions (most learned 7 
> decades+ ago and do not just believe what YOU write. Most list-members are 
> not ignorant novices, many have firm opinions of things you re-define and 
> this is a natural source of disbelief. 
> Your "In my book" is no argument. We wrote books as well. . 
>
> *I "know" for sure that we don't know anything for sure.* I will not hunt 
> after such items and when I post disbelief that is something I usually can 
> support from my past  experience. 
>
> Have a good 2014 and beyond
>
> John Mikes
>
>  
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net<javascript:>
> > wrote:
>
>> Terren,
>>
>> All human babies are automatically consciousness. They are conscious of 
>> whatever input data they have. I don't see the point of your question which 
>> is why I didn't answer before...
>>
>> Edgar
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 2:42:24 PM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote:
>>
>>> On the contrary, I replied with a question that went unanswered. 
>>>
>>> It was a question about whether a human baby, fed a stream of virtual 
>>> sense data as in the movie The Matrix, could be considered conscious in 
>>> your theory, as you seemed to suggest that consciousness was a property of 
>>> reality, as a function somehow of "ontological energy".
>>>
>>> Terren
>>> On Jan 8, 2014 1:49 PM, "Edgar L. Owen" <edga...@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Telmo,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the link but see my new topic "A theory of consciousness" of 
>>>> a few days ago which no one has even commented on and which is much more 
>>>> reasonable and explanatory.
>>>>
>>>> Edgar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 12:57:37 PM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> In case you haven't seen it... 
>>>>>
>>>>> http://arxiv.org/abs/1401.1219 
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems like an attempt to recover materialism, which strikes me as 
>>>>> somewhat unexpected from Tegmark. Am I missing something? 
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers, 
>>>>> Telmo. 
>>>>>
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