On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 8:32 AM, Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:
> To answer your questions.
> Reality must be finite. When the definition of infinity as an unreachable
> non-terminable PROCESS (keep adding 1 forever) is clearly understood it is
> obvious that nothing actual can be infinite. There is no getting around
> this. Nothing real can be infinite....
This, combined with your insistence on a fundamental time, represents a
contradiction, since if existence has always existed then time is infinite.
Since time is actual in your theory...
> Reality was never created. Non-existence cannot exist, therefore existence
> (something) has always existed. This is the fundamental self-necessitating
> axiom of reality upon which all others stand. It is the ultimate bottom
> turtle (along with the axiom that the universe is logical). Therefore there
> is no necessity of a creator nor a creation event.
> The big bang was an ACTUALIZATION event, not a creation event, out of a
> generalized quantum vacuum (my ontological energy) which was originally
> formless but contained all the possibilities able to be actualized. With
> the big bang forms became real and actual and the universe was born and the
> computational universe began computing its ongoing evolution....
> On Friday, January 10, 2014 10:23:39 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote:
>> I think Edgar's computational reality can be consistent with the
>> computational theory of mind if you somehow constrain reality to be small
>> and finite.
>> The moment you let the universe be very big (eternal inflation) then you
>> also get an infinite number of computers built by aliens in distant
>> galaxies, any of which might be simulating you, and the same consequences
>> Bruno points out apply.
>> My question to Edgar is why do you believe reality is finite? This seems
>> to contradict a number of current scientific theories.
>> Also, when do you believe reality was created? And how do you explain
>> it's origins?
>> On Jan 9, 2014, at 10:35 PM, LizR <liz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10 January 2014 17:19, meekerdb <meek...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> On 1/9/2014 7:07 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
>>> No Liz, I told you what it IS. It's the happening in computational space
>>> that enables computations to take place since something has to move for
>>> computations to occur. All it DOES is provide the processor cycle for
>>> You seem to be nit picking...
>>> On Thursday, January 9, 2014 9:56:19 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote:
>>>> No you spent them telling me what it *does*. I'd like to know what it
>>>> On 10 January 2014 15:54, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> wrote:
>>>>> Common Liz, I just spent the last number of posts telling you and
>>>>> Stephen what it is... Don't make me repeat myself...
>>> I don't know why there is this concern about Edgar's computations. It's
>>> seems very much like Bruno's, except Bruno's Universal computer is running
>>> all possible programs (by dovetailing). The time that appears on clocks is
>>> a computed ordering relation which is conjugate to the conserved quantity
>>> called "energy".
>>> Bruno's dovetailer is supposedly running (if that's the word) in an
>> abstract space, while Edgar's processor units are, as far as one can tell,
>> intended to be in some sense physical. It's clear what Bruno's ontology is
>> based on, he makes it explicit in his axioms. It isn't clear what Edgar's
>> ontology is based on - he seems to be assuming that time and some form of
>> computation are fundamental properties of the universe, but not what those
>> computers are running on (by Turing equivalence, I assume they COULD be
>> running on a desktop PC in some other universe) or what his "universal
>> present moment" consists of - is it a linear dimensio, say? But then it
>> appears to be quantised, since it only supports discrete computational
>> steps. Can time be quantised? What are the implications? Do things like the
>> Landauer limit come into his theory?
>> The concern is, I suspect, due to...
>> a) a lack of rigour, either logical or mathematical, in describing the
>> b) a lack of testable results, or indications of how one gets from the
>> theory to the observed reality
>> c) a bad attitude
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