On 14 Jan 2014, at 15:13, Edgar L. Owen wrote:

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Bruno,Not at all. The list of all possible things in a real world is NOTinfinite.

In what real world? In all real worlds? To define "not finite", you need second order logic.

`To assume *one* finite reality is close to a blaspheme (grin) in the`

`everything list.`

`Some people told me that the step seven is enough for the UDA result`

`(physics = branch of elementary number theory), as they consider that`

`a "little finite reality", the way out of comp's consequence) at step`

`7, is enough "absurdo" for them.`

Personally I don't know, that's why there is a step 8.

The possibilities are restricted by the intrinsic nature of thequantum vacuum.

`Can you define "quantum vacuum" without assuming elementary number`

`theory?`

`It seems to me that you take "reality" for granted, by ostensive local`

`and personal pointing.`

`Alas, I dream often of people doing that to convince me on the reality`

`of something, and I have developed, apparently, an immunity on that`

`kind of argument, at least when made public.`

`On the contrary, I argue that nature has a simple (conceptually)`

`*reason* to "exist" from the average universal numbers point of view.`

For example, you can't get an infinite number of different TYPES ofparticles out of the quantum vacuum.

`In which theory? As long as quantum gravitation is unclear, I would be`

`cautious on such statements. I might be interested seeing a proof of`

`this, in some theory, but even in that case, I would not conclude`

`anything, unless the theory if extracted from comp, in which case I`

`would still only make public "comp implies a finite number of type of`

`particles". Also are anyons particles? Then I doubt your statements`

`right now, as I can write a quantum computer program generating`

`infinitely many sort of particles. Of course I will need a powerful`

`magnet!`

The set is very restricted to those actually possible in theStandard Model...

So you assume the Standard Model.

`With comp, that's a sort of treachery. (This is not obvious at all,`

`but should be understood "easily" from the UD-Argument).`

You might appreciate the first seven step of UDA, as they prove this:

`Either the physical reality is small, or physics is an arithmetical`

`self-referential modality.`

`But step 8 eliminates the left option. I think, although when we talk`

`on reality, we cannot avoid some use of Occam razor, which can always`

`be annihilated by strong reification and ontological commitment.`

`(That's why there are fundamentalists, creationists and people like`

`that. Nothing can change their mind).`

Bruno

Edgar On Tuesday, January 14, 2014 4:29:02 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Jan 2014, at 20:37, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > William, > > No, it's not the reification fallacy, unless you apply the same > definition to all theories, none of which are real. Of course > theories aren't reality. > > In any case the quantum vacuum, out of which real particles can > appear, is a well accepted concept. I just generalize it a little in > my theory to include everything which could become possible. Just an advise: - when working on the fundamentals, avoid terms like "obvious, of course, etc." - when working in the interdisciplinary area, avoid terms like "well accepted". Note also that if you make a "little" generalization to include all the possible, your assumed reality is no more finite, and this contradicts some of your other posts. It is unclear, as your ontology is unclear. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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