On 16 Jan 2014, at 18:27, John Clark wrote:

On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:

> The simplest and by far most likely answer is to assume that the world we appear to live in IS the real actual world

Maybe. But it could be argued that if the ability to perform vast calculations is possible (and I can't see why it wouldn't be) then sooner of later it will be achieved,

IF you can believe that 17 is prime independently of you, and, out of time, space, physics, so to speak, THEN we can say that all computations are achieved, as they are emulated by the arithmetical reality.






then a future Jupiter Brain will be able to create astonishingly realistic simulations, and Mr. Jupiter Brain would probably be curious about humans, the creatures that made it, and so it would make a simulation of them, and those simulated humans will make a simulated Jupiter Brain which in turn will make simulated simulated humans who will [...]

I admit this is a VERY long chain of reasoning, but you might conclude that the most likely conclusion is we live in a simulation. I'm not saying any of this is true but...

The quantum facts confirms that we are living in the "bottom" simulation, that is the one naturally emerging from arithmetic. If we bet on comp, and discover that the laws of physics that we can infer from first person observation contradicts the laws of physics that we can extract from comp, then we can infer that we are in a higher level simulation done by "Jupiter" or some of our descendants.

Bruno



> We can imagine we live in some simulation by some super beings and that may or may not be a possibility (I maintain there will always be a way to figure that out),

I'm almost embarrassed to admit it but from time to time I have found myself drawing analogies from the coarse grained nature of the quantum world and getting too close to the screen in a video game and seeing individual pixels; and between the quantum world where things don't seem to actually exist before you measure them and the fact that a good programmer doesn't waste computer power simulating things behind a big rock that nobody will ever see. And the singularity at the center of a Black Hole does sometimes seem a little like a screw up where a programer tried to divide by zero.

I'm half joking in all this, but only half.

  John K Clark





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