Russell,

Yes, I'm familiar with that and just posted a journal reference to it. But 
it's an incorrect understanding. What is really important here is RATIONAL 
UNpredictability, not IRrationality.

This is just rationally outsmarting your competitor by figuring out what he 
thinks you are going to do and doing otherwise. This is a rational, not an 
irrational, decision making process. It's exhibiting superior intelligence, 
superior rationality.

On the other hand there are also cases, e.g. which way a pursued prey 
turns, which are not necessarily calculated this way but just by choosing a 
direction quasi-randomly and this does make it more difficult for the 
pursuing predator to predict. But this is NOT IRrationality, it's just a 
RATIONAL quasi-random process.

However in my original post I was thinking more on the basic level of what 
I call 'the logic of things', the basic mental rules by which organisms 
function. Things like not stepping in front of buses, or visiting a water 
hole when an animal is thirsty.

Almost all decision making is made on this basic clearly rational basis. 
The examples above are much rarer forms of behavior.

Edgar


On Friday, January 17, 2014 7:33:18 PM UTC-5, Russell Standish wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 04:08:08PM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: 
> > Russell, 
> > 
> > PS: On second thought maybe we don't agree completely. Though free will 
> is 
> > quantum random based (we agree on that), it doesn't mean that it is 
> > "irrational". 
> > 
> > If human actions and the actions of other biological organisms weren't 
> > basically rational they couldn't function or survive in the real actual 
> > world they live in.... 
>
> That is not true. Read up on the concept of Machiavellian 
> Intelligence. A modicum of irrationality is just what it takes to get 
> ahead in the world, it makes one less predictable to one's competitors. 
>
> > 
> > Their actions aren't irrational, they just aren't completely determined 
> by 
> > their environments. 
> > 
>
> Rational beings are completely determined by their 
> environment. Rational, by definition, means choosing the best course 
> of action (according to some utility). A rational being becomes 
> completely stuck when presented with two completely identical 
> preferred choices. e will continue in an endless loop analysing the 
> options to determine which is best. Even some people I know have trouble 
> in 
> this situation, but will eventually break out of it by giving up the 
> analysis (ie behaving irrationally). 
>
>
> > The trick is to understand how quantum based indeterminacy can be 
> amplified 
> > to rationality.... 
> > 
>
> I don't think that is possible. Amplification to irrationality, 
> however, is easy to understand. Just employ chaos theory. In fact, the 
> brain appears to be just so structured (see Scientific American, vol 
> 264, pp 78-85). 
>
> > Edgar 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Friday, January 17, 2014 7:01:26 PM UTC-5, Russell Standish wrote: 
> > > 
> > > On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 12:10:23PM +1300, LizR wrote: 
> > > > On 18 January 2014 11:34, meekerdb <meek...@verizon.net<javascript:>> 
> > > wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > >  It doesn't mean anything.  There are microtubles in all cells. 
>  So 
> > > why 
> > > > > don't I think with my penis...oh...never mind.  :-) 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Teehee. You're not the messiah, you're a very naught boy! 
> > > > 
> > > > I thought Tegmark showed that the Penrose theory is unlikely (by 
> some 
> > > > ridiculously large factor) because the brain isn't supercooled and 
> > > isolated 
> > > > from influences that may cause decoherence within about 10^-25 
> > > seconds... 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Exactly. Quantum superposition within microtubules seems an unlikely 
> > > source of computational power within the brain. Quantum randomness is 
> > > more likely to occur due to thermal fluctuations across the synaptic 
> > > gap, and I quite agree with Edgar that it is an essential part of the 
> > > only sensible conception of free will (the ability to act 
> irrationality). 
> > > 
> > > Not that Edgar is the first to say it, nor would I claim that title 
> > > for myself :). 
> > > 
> > > Cheers 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > 
> > > 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>
> > > 
> > > Prof Russell Standish                  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) 
> > > Principal, High Performance Coders 
> > > Visiting Professor of Mathematics      
> > > hpc...@hpcoders.com.au<javascript:> 
>
> > > University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au 
> > > 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
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> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>
> Prof Russell Standish                  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) 
> Principal, High Performance Coders 
> Visiting Professor of Mathematics      hpc...@hpcoders.com.au<javascript:> 
> University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au 
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>
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