On 18 Jan 2014, at 05:02, meekerdb wrote:

On 1/17/2014 4:08 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Russell,

PS: On second thought maybe we don't agree completely. Though free will is quantum random based (we agree on that), it doesn't mean that it is "irrational".

And conversely, just making them deterministic wouldn't mean they were rational.

Indeed.

I think free-will is related to Turing indeterminacy, which is not related to the quantum or comp indeterminacy.

Free will is related to the (deterministic) fact that a machine cannot known his entire "trace" or comp path, and cannot predict its current here and now decision, despite perhaps believing in the right deterministic laws.

We can intuit this, as nobody would buy an argument of a lawyer saying that his client is not guilty, because his client is just a bunch of particles obeying to the SWE. The argument does not work as it gives to the jury the ability to make any decision, by referring themselves to the SWE. The jury can say "guilty", and reassure everybidy that they have scrupulously followed the SWE.

Correct machine are immune against "minoriy reports" (a movie where psychic people predict crimes so that the police can arrest the "criminal" before the action).

Well, the "preventive war" notion, like the NDAA, illustrates that humans are not correct/honest machine, perhaps.

Bruno



Brent


If human actions and the actions of other biological organisms weren't basically rational they couldn't function or survive in the real actual world they live in....

Their actions aren't irrational, they just aren't completely determined by their environments.

The trick is to understand how quantum based indeterminacy can be amplified to rationality....

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