On 22 Jan 2014, at 02:00, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Stephen,
A lot of good stuff in your post. I'll come back to some of it later
after I think more on it but first wanted to clarify a couple of
your points.
You say "the UDA serves a good purpose to show that there is some
ontological merit in the idea that Numbers can serve as a
fundamental ground for Mind as a Platonic Form. It is the "timeless"
spacial case."
By "timeless special case" it seems like you are implying the UDA is
not an ACTUAL case describing a reality that we agree necessarily
must move. So it seems like you are saying that though the UDA might
somehow shed some light on reality it is not actually describing
reality as it actually is. Is that correct?
Another problem with the UDA is I see no way a Platonia consisting
of pure arithmetic can possible know how to actually compute what is
actually occurring in the universe. How does pure static arithmetic
truth know anything about what is actually happening where and how
to compute which particles are interacting with which particles in
what ways? I see no way that works at all.
Can we agree on something like "Bruno's UDA is not an applicable
description of a reality we agree actually moves, that actually
includes the notion of 'becoming'?
Second point in this post is I AGREE with you that "it is a mistake
to assume that there is only a single computation going on." for a
number of reasons. I've never claimed that. Sorry if that wasn't
clear before.
I think the most reasonable model is a single computational REALITY
(not a single computation) that contains myriads of computations
each computing the current state of reality in computational
interaction with its information environment (environment in a
logical sense, not a dimensional or spatial sense).
This model avoids your concurrency problem, and a single
computational reality allows computational continuity and
consistency across the entire computational universe (again a
logical, not physical dimensional spatial universe).
Can we agree on something like "There is a single computational
reality
Yes. A tiny part of arithmetic contains that, with the standard
definition of computation, and Church thesis.
which includes myriads of ongoing computations which together
continually compute the current state of the universe"?
No. It only computes infinitely often all dreams, and the FPI (the
First Person Indeterminacy on all my states in arithmetic) generates
the "persistent illusion" of a physical multiverse.
Bruno
Edgar
On Tuesday, January 21, 2014 5:17:44 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King
wrote:
Dear Edgar,
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net>
wrote:
Stephen,
OK, with these clarifications let's see what we can agree on so far.
1. Block time is a BS theory. We know we agree on that.
good!
2. Do you agree that Bruno's USA can also be discounted for the same
reason block time can be, that there is no way to get movement out
of it?
No, the UDA serves a good purpose to show that there is some
ontological merit in the idea that Numbers can serve as a
fundamental ground for Mind as a Platonic Form. It is the "timeless"
spacial case.
3. Do you agree that there must be some fundamental notion of
movement (not movement in space, but in the sense of things
happening) at the fundamental level?
Yes, I denote this as "Becoming is Fundamental".
4. Do you agree that implies some notion of time flowing?
The imposition of finite measures onto the Becoming is the creation
of a clock. Clocks are strictly "local" entities. It has been
repeatedly proven that a single clock cannot order all possible
events of space-time. Thus a singular "Present Moment" is an
oxymoron, a self-contradicting idea.
5. Do you agree that reality is fundamentally computational?
<div
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