Dear Edgar,
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]> wrote: > Stephen, > > It's an error to assume that perception has anything to do with things > moving. > No, No! Not moving in a space- changing position coordinates, but some form of motion. For example, the spin of an electron is a form of motion, but it is not moving in the usual sense. > The current information state of the entire universe is continually being > computed whether it's being perceived by anyone or not. Perception has > nothing to do with it except apparently in the erroneous block time and UD > theories which seem to claim that without things being perceived there is > no motion, and that therefore there is no 'actual' motion which is > anthropomorphic nonsense.... > If the computation is the perception? My beef with your thinking is that you take perception as a passive relation and not an action. > > The perceptions of individual organisms are just subsets of the overall > universal computation. They have nothing to do with the fact that the whole > universe is being actively computed. > Sure, it is being computed piece-wise by all of its participants. There is not need to propose a separate computational space, until we get into specifics of physics. A "mind" for this simplistic toy model of what I advocate, is the computation and involves self-modeling at some level. Self-modeling need not be complete self-simulation, it only need to compute the relative position of the fingers and toes, for example. > > Edgar > > > On Tuesday, January 21, 2014 1:50:03 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: > >> Dear Edgar, >> >> We can get to the root of the obstruction, perhaps, is the nature of >> perception. If perception, physically speaking, is the mere matching >> between some bit of the world to some bit in the brain (or whatever is >> running the recursively enumerable functions) then this would match up with >> the Block Universe concept. The representational (or numerical or >> computational) picture would involve a mapping between identical bits in a >> way that is parallel to the physical picture. >> If, on the other hand, there is some form of irreducible transitional >> action required for perception then both the Platonic notions and the Block >> Universe have a fatal flaw. Real world computations do not occur in zero >> time. There is a delay. In the case of humans this delay has been measured >> to be between 50 and 100 milliseconds. The world you perceive is an image >> of the world up to 100ms in the past. There is evidence for irreducible >> time in perception. >> Cogito ergo eram: I think, therefore I was. >> >> Computing the universe separately, as you propose, does not solve this >> obstruction in the nature of perception. >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 1:27 PM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Bruno, >> >> Again you avoid the question. You need to give everyone a clear and >> convincing reason in English. Just requoting some abstract mathematical >> proof won't suffice unless you can prove it actually applies. If there is >> really a way to get motion from stasis you should be able to simply state >> the core of the argument in plain English. >> >> There simply is no way to get motion from non-motion, either in your >> theory or in block time....You can look at it from any perspective you want >> to but unless something moves nothing moves... >> >> Of course you can use the same 'cop out' that block time does when it >> claims that an observer in every static frame of block time perceives a >> sequence of events, but that doesn't work to move anything. It's still just >> a sequence of cartoon frames whi >> >> ... > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/TBc_y2MZV5c/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Kindest Regards, Stephen Paul King Senior Researcher Mobile: (864) 567-3099 [email protected] http://www.provensecure.us/ “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as attorney work product. 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