On 1 February 2014 09:39, Craig Weinberg <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Is there any instance in which a computation is employed in which no
>> > program or data is input and from which no data is expected as output?
>>
>> The UD.
>>
>
> Isn't everything output from the UD?
>

No, as I understand it, only the appearance of everything. (Comp answers
the question "why is there something rather than nothing" by "it depends
what you mean by something...")

>
> How does the program itself get to be a program without being input?
>

See genetic algorithms for one example. See genetics for another. A "blind
watchmaker" can make a computer programme, although we can normally write
one a lot more efficiently.

>
> It seems to me though, and this is why I posted this thread, that i/o is
> taken for granted and has no real explanation of what it is in mathematical
> terms.
>

No mathematical explanation for what input and output are?! They both come
down to binary digits, how mathematical do you want it to be?

>
The rest of your post seems a lot more sensible and I will leave those
questions for Bruno to agree or disagree, I would also like to know how
numbers can make an effort (as would Xenocrates! If John will forgive the
reference...)

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