On Saturday, February 1, 2014 5:48:04 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: > > On 2 February 2014 08:41, Bruno Marchal <[email protected] <javascript:>> > wrote: > > >> There can be no zombies if consciousness is epiphenomenal. > > > > > > Just to be sure, I agree with that. > > > > I asked "why?" because I was thinking at the meta-level. > > > > The problem, is that if we can conceive that consciousness is > epiphenomenal, > > we can conceive that consciousness does not exist. > > > > That is why I am afraid that epiphenomenalism makes a step toward the > > elimination of the person. > > > > With comp we can eliminate or own person or ego, but that's the kind of > > thing which needs our own personal consent. > > Another way to look at it is that if consciousness is epiphenomenal > then it necessarily exists. > > >> Equivalently, if consciousness is epiphenomenal we could say it does > >> not really exist and we are all zombies; but I think that's just > >> semantics, and misleading. > > > > > > As I said, that's eliminativism. > > > > Now tell me, is it a crime to torture a p-zombie? > > > > I know a three years kids who broke a doll purposefully. Should we send > the > > kid in jail? In an asylum? > > > > Consciousness is not epiphenomenal, even if the brain might have > arbitrary > > choices in some of the way to sum up big chunks of informations > available > > for the person in act. > > > > Consciousness might better be seen as phenomenal, 1p. It depends on > truth, > > self, and relative consistency. > > If the dolls lack consciousness then it is not a crime to torture > them. Whether the consciousness is epiphenomenal or not is irrelevant. >
There is potentially an argument that torturing anything, even fictionally, could have negative consequences over time. it could conceivably build a tolerance for sadism and cruelty, both neurologically and culturally. The suppression of fictional torture could have negative consequences too though. > > -- > Stathis Papaioannou > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
