On 09 Feb 2014, at 19:56, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 3:24 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> The invention of language was obviously of great benefit to the
species called Homo sapiens, but like all tools it is not perfect
and sometimes the brain can waste a great deal of processing power
spinning its wheels over questions of words rather than ideas. For
example, a recent poll showed that 70% of people in the USA thought
that if a dying patient agreed then doctors should be allowed to
"end the patient's life by some painless means"; however only 51%
thought that doctors should be allowed to help a dying patient who
wanted to die "commit suicide". Another example would be those who
DON'T believe in a omnipotent omniscient intelligent conscious being
who created the universe and is responsible for morality but DO
believe in "God".
> What about those who believe, or assume, a god, or a goddess, but
disbelieve omnipotence, and are agnostic on omniscience?
I suppose a supreme being need not be omnipotent, he or she just
needs to be better than the competition, but there is one thing you
can't get around, a supreme being needs to be A BEING; an Amorphous
Vague Fog Of Bafflegab (AVFOB) is not enough.
Neoplatonist theologian are very careful about this. God might be a
sort of person, but for them he is responsible for all the being, and
is not part of the being. In Plotinus, both God and Matter do "not
exist" in some sense, as what exists is what God does, and Matter is
where God lose control.
Then I let you debate with yourself on the two questions:
1) is arithmetical truth a being?
2) can arithmetical truth appears as some being from the points of
view of universal machines?
>I have never use the term God in the papers, but have use Plotinus
ONE, or Plato's truth, or the term "theology".
One is the first integer
Not really. "One" is a nickname chosen by Plotinus for the Platonist-
Parmenidian abstract conception of God.
Plato opposes somehow two conceptions of God. The God of the Timaeus
is more Aristotelian, and looks like some architect or artist, and
somehow, Neoplatonism will recover it in the Soul, the inner God.
Plotinus' One comes from the God of the Parmenides, which nature is
very different.
It is an hellenist tradition to have three Gods, and this is reflected
in the Christian trinity. For the neoplatonist, there is only one
"ONE" (God), but it emanates or degenerates and gives the MANY in the
form of the Noùs, the realm of the intelligible ideas, and this
emanates too and give birth to the soul, which will somehow be
responsible for matter and nature.
Of course, the first integer (for the greek), the number 1 is very
important, and related to the ONE.
Yet today we know the number one is the *second* integer, enclosed
between 0 and 2. Important numbers, if this is not trivial.
and it is not a being, and neither is the state of being true,
therefore neither is the supreme being.
> In this forum I have used God in some reply, and this has help to
confirm my feeling that only atheists are annoyed by this,
You don't need to be a atheist, anybody who thinks that words should
mean something would be annoyed.
No, people who thinks that word should mean something have no problem,
as the term God is the term used in comparative theology with a large
but rather clear meaning.
Only those insisting that God means the Christian God appears to be
annoyed.
> atheists, constantly, defend the christian's concept of God, more
than the Christians.
Wow, calling a guy known for disliking religion religious, never
heard that one before, at least I never heard it before I was 12.
Religion without science is mad.
Science without religion is blind.
To separate science from religion leads to schizophrenia.
You confuse religion with the sick remnant of years of use of violence
in the pseudo-argumentation.
Despite your intention, your attitude is helping them. By mocking the
field, you leave it in the hand of the pseudo-authorities.
Bruno
John K Clark
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