On 02 Mar 2014, at 04:54, Russell Standish wrote:
On Sat, Mar 01, 2014 at 01:03:39PM -0800, meekerdb wrote:
On 3/1/2014 12:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 28 Feb 2014, at 23:58, meekerdb wrote:
On 2/28/2014 2:32 PM, LizR wrote:
"If it's all math, then where does math come from?"
Strange to say, elementary maths just appears to be a fact.
That is, it is a fact that 1+1=2.
Or it comes from our conceptualizing the world as consisting of
distinct objects and counting them, c.f. William S. Cooper "The
Origin of Reason" and Lakoff and Nunez "Where Mathematics Comes
From".
That makes sense, but only by negating computationalism.
I don't see that it is inconsistent with saying "yes" to the doctor
- though it may be inconsistent with other parts of your argument
like the UDA.
Brent
I don't see that it negates COMP either. And in response to Chris's
original observation, why couldn't minds and phenomena emerge from
numbers, and simultaneously, numbers emerge from the mind. Such would
an example of Hofstadters "strange loop".
IIRC, you (Brent) have suggested virtuous (or vicious) cycles at the
base of
everything at times in the past too?
It is more a virtuous/vicious cycle, than a strange loop, but perhaps
I am wrong on what Hofstadter called a "strange loop".
Mind and phenomena can arise from numbers, and then human-numbers can
be discovered by the human minds, but there is no loop here, no more
than humans can arise from amoeba, and then later humans can discover
the amoebas. If we can explain how mind and phenomena arise from
number, we can already be satisfied, I think, as we can understand
that we cannot understand where numbers come from. To add that they
come from humans or minds, make the loop vicious, as an *explanation*.
That might be possible, in a close time loop in GR, but then we have
to explain GR and why there is a physical universe obeying GR, and how
mind emerges in there, etc.
Bruno
Cheers
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders
Visiting Professor of Mathematics [email protected]
University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
